Help Please....

I am trying to find another source of breeders. She seems more normal this morning.

A few days ago I noticed a kinda limp in the other female...

Now this....

I am begining to think it is something genetic.

When I got them something did not look quite right. One female has bad bug eyes. and the other has like a swollen lower eye lid on one side.

The male seems absolutely normal. He is a wonderful looking cinnamon I am so sad that I will not be able to breed these guys.

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Originally Posted by hoax

I do not have the BP to try to feed her too so I would not try to feed her off. fedding off sick animals does not make sense. why would i feed off a sick animal.

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Nothing wrong with feeding a rat like this off. It is nature 101. The weaker, defective ones in nature are almost cerainly the ones to get eaten. It ain't going to hurt that snake if that is what you are worried about.



Mike

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Originally Posted by hoax

A few days ago I noticed a kinda limp in the other female...

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As they age, they often develop bad degenerative joint disease.

Or if a wheel is provided, they can break a leg or hurt themselves if the wheel is not solid, without any gaps from wire or spokes. Generally this is not such a hazard, but I have seen it happen.

So far the illness I have seen in my colony as they age all match up with what I have read online in journals at sites like pubmed etc, except for my hereditary muscle disorder which I'm not sure what it really is.

• The spontaneous warts or lesions that erupt from the skin, like cancerous tumors.
  
• Degenerative joint disease
  
• Hereditary muscular/nervous disorder
  
• Spontaneous loss of hair in large patches, mainly on the middle back down to rear, followed by small - medium sized bumps on skin, not associated with visible ecto parasites, but not ruled out entirely. (only 2 animals show out of 5 in same colony, they are also the oldest.)
  
• Frequent eye infections, mainly eye goop that seals the eye shut and needs only some drops of saline to open.

My point over all of this, is that there is no way to know if it is genetic, and not environmental, unless you line breed them. Since they really don't sound like good candidates for breeding, I wouldn't just for a lark, because unless you kept the two lines completely separate down the road in every way, you'd be continuing the passing on of the suspected disease if it were genetic...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Nothing wrong with feeding a rat like this off. It is nature 101. The weaker, defective ones in nature are almost cerainly the ones to get eaten. It ain't going to hurt that snake if that is what you are worried about.



Mike

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I just don't want to do anything that will hurt any of my animals (I know it hurts them when the snake squeezes them until they are purple I just mean unnecessarily)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

As they age, they often develop bad degenerative joint disease.

Or if a wheel is provided, they can break a leg or hurt themselves if the wheel is not solid, without any gaps from wire or spokes. Generally this is not such a hazard, but I have seen it happen.

So far the illness I have seen in my colony as they age all match up with what I have read online in journals at sites like pubmed etc, except for my hereditary muscle disorder which I'm not sure what it really is.

• The spontaneous warts or lesions that erupt from the skin, like cancerous tumors.
  
• Degenerative joint disease
  
• Hereditary muscular/nervous disorder
  
• Spontaneous loss of hair in large patches, mainly on the middle back down to rear, followed by small - medium sized bumps on skin, not associated with visible ecto parasites, but not ruled out entirely. (only 2 animals show out of 5 in same colony, they are also the oldest.)
  
• Frequent eye infections, mainly eye goop that seals the eye shut and needs only some drops of saline to open.

My point over all of this, is that there is no way to know if it is genetic, and not environmental, unless you line breed them. Since they really don't sound like good candidates for breeding, I wouldn't just for a lark, because unless you kept the two lines completely separate down the road in every way, you'd be continuing the passing on of the suspected disease if it were genetic...

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I guess I will breed these guys as feeders just until I can find some more to breed and then feed off the parents...

It is not really the way that i desire it to be. I just don't have much of a choice, there are no half decent places to get good feeders in my town. Heck I drove 2 hours one way to get these defectives....

Do I understand correctly that this happened right after you cleaned with bleach?

I know ammonia and bleach make a toxic chemical (I decided to use both to mop my basement once and it was really bad). Perhaps there was a reaction between the ammonia from their urine and the bleach you where cleaning with and a gas was filling the bottom of the cage. Might want to be sure and clean a couple times with just water at the end next time.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Do I understand correctly that this happened right after you cleaned with bleach?

I know ammonia and bleach make a toxic chemical (I decided to use both to mop my basement once and it was really bad). Perhaps there was a reaction between the ammonia from their urine and the bleach you where cleaning with and a gas was filling the bottom of the cage. Might want to be sure and clean a couple times with just water at the end next time.

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That's an idea there, I hadn't even thought of. I know I've always been told to clean my cats litter pan with ammonia just to avoid that situation. I wonder if it could have happened in this case?

If it's any help, I use diluted dish soap, give the tub a spray down with the soap, and wipe with a rag in the pee corner, then I rinse with high pressure until I can't smell the lemony scent of the dish soap. It does the job for me. :gj:

Also, I know your close to Dallas, don't we have a couple of members that keep ASF's down that way?

We do I just keep on forgetting who they are...

The only on I can remember is Sarah and I have to send her a PM.

I thought I cleaned out the bleach really really well.

I wiped it down twice. and then I went to clean the water bottle and I put in new shavings and put in their new chewies. and then put them in last...

It happened really quick and the others have not acted the same. The male is perfectly normal the female that has a limp has been like that for a couple of days.

Just to be on the safe side I will never use bleach again.


Do you think it is irresponsible of me to breed these guys just for feeders. They will be feed of as weanlings. I feel like a jerk I just can not afford to buy them all food right now. My wife is having surgery in two weeks and we have to pay for her school books.

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Originally Posted by hoax

Do you think it is irresponsible of me to breed these guys just for feeders. They will be feed of as weanlings. I feel like a jerk I just can not afford to buy them all food right now. My wife is having surgery in two weeks and we have to pay for her school books.

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Again, no, you should not breed them. Go to the local pet shop and buy mice for now if you have to. She is already obviously uncomfortable... and there is already something obviously wrong with her! Why would you want to on top of all that let her have 15 babies inside of her! Babies that will likely have the same issues themselves!!!

There is nothing wrong with cleaning with bleach. Just use common sense and spray it out with fresh water after. I would venture to say that the city water in Jacksonville, Florida has way more chemicals in it then your 10% bleach solution... And not only is that the water I clean the tanks with, it is also the water they drink!

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Again, no, you should not breed them. Go to the local pet shop and buy mice for now if you have to. She is already obviously uncomfortable... and there is already something obviously wrong with her! Why would you want to on top of all that let her have 15 babies inside of her! Babies that will likely have the same issues themselves!!!

There is nothing wrong with cleaning with bleach. Just use common sense and spray it out with fresh water after. I would venture to say that the city water in Jacksonville, Florida has way more chemicals in it then your 10% bleach solution... And not only is that the water I clean the tanks with, it is also the water they drink!

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OK that is what I will do. Thanks....

good luck. Post something in the for sale section. Surely there is someone in your area that can hook you up!