New(ish) ball python still not eating...

[IMG]IMG_5579.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_5580.JPG[/IMG]

These are images of her tank. I removed the towel from one to give you an overhead view. The left side is the warm side. I keep the water bowl there to encourage her soaking, it gets too cold for her to like it on the other side and the warm side keeps it about room temp.

Here are pics of Koshi!
[IMG]IMG_5454.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_5424.HEIC[/IMG]
[IMG]IMG_5392.JPG[/IMG]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by partlybella

Replying to this one with your questions about her enclosure as well! I can't seem to figure out how to upload an image, but her tank is a ten gal glass tank (longer than it is tall). I keep the humidity between 50-60%, although it does drop if I don't spray the tank at least once a day. The warm side of the tank is regulated with a heating pad on the outside bottom of the tank, and I keep a temperature node on the bottom against the glass to get an approximate reading. It runs hotter than I would like on the glass, but on the surface of the substrate it's much cooler than the reading on the thermometer suggests. I keep a hide on the warm side as well. On the cooler side there is another hide. In the other space in the tank I keep a plastic log with some tunnels (which she utilizes often as she's exploring) and some fake leaves. The substrate is cypress mulch per their recommendation. I also keep a water bowl in there. I'd love to drop an image if someone can let me know how to upload one from my files LOL

As for the towel you mentioned - I have pins for the top of the tank to keep it secure, the towel is more for her sake. I keep her enclosure on the desk next to the space I work on schoolwork and play video games (with a headset, no loud speakers!), so I keep the towel over it so she's not seeing a shadow move over her every half hour or so. I like to hope it keeps her more comfortable rather than having an open space above her head.

I think I'll keep with the frozen thawed. I definitely agree she might just need more time to settle in without being confronted with food once a week. As for the feeding technique, I'll work on that. I hadn't considered that keeping it closer rather than trying to entice her with it might spook her a bit. For the thawing recommendation, am I correct in remembering you said to thaw with cool water, then heat it with a blow dryer? How long do you heat it with a blow dryer for? I don't want to accidentally char the mouse :(. If you wouldn't mind, could you give me a step by step on your method of thawing? Both I've tried haven't been successful, and whether that's Koshi needing more time or not, I might as well go with what experienced snake owners recommend.

Thank you so much for your help so far!

EDIT: Forgot to mention! I keep a lamp near the tank (not UV) to regulate a day night cycle in case the natural light from the window across the room isn't really enough. (it's kind of dim, Arizona windows are tinted)

---

Heat pads (human type) or UTH (those made for reptile keeping) all NEED to be regulated with a thermostat, not just read by a thermometer. Otherwise they can easily overheat & kill your snake, or start a fire. (heat can build up, wires can short, etc) Safety is important, as is installing them properly (with a little air space for safety- recommended by the manufacturers, btw).

What's REALLY important is to take a temperature reading ON the glass INSIDE the tank where the snake might actually touch it if (WHEN!) they push the substrate back (which they will, sooner or later). You don't want that inside reading to exceed 89-90* max, okay? Snakes like BPs don't always know when they're too hot- maybe because they're heavy bodied & it takes a while to warm up their whole body? Anyway, "burns" are the result, they're painful for the snake, not fun to treat, can be costly (vet care!), can be serious (lead to infection & death) & are best prevented. ;)

Unless your room is totally in the dark, I'd leave the light OFF. BPs are nocturnal, & like most snakes, prefer dim lighting. Just the ambient room lighting should be fine & less stressful. This could be part of the problem. If you still think it's too dark, only use a dim bulb & not near the tank.

Humidity is usually an issue in a glass tank with a screen top- there's too much air-flow. Most using similar set-ups find they need to cover most of the screen with something that doesn't allow air-flow, some use tin foil, others use a piece of plexi, etc. If you look closely at the professionally made plastic enclosures that many use, you'll see how little ventilation there is- you need some, for sure, but that's an easy fix. Knowing that heat rises, it helps to have 2 "vents", one over the warm end will allow warm air to rise up & out, & one vent on the cool end, which will draw in fresh air to circulate thru.

The frequent spraying may also be startling to your snake- the breeder probably didn't do that. ;) Better to humidify the substrate somewhat, or offer a humid hide, & not spray. If most of the top (screen) is covered to block air-flow, that will likely fix the problem- humidity will stay in where it's needed.

You mentioned the towel that helps weigh down the top, that's why I wanted to make sure you know that snakes can & will push up on tops- they must be very secure. A towel is no match for a determined :snake: lol. You might never see your snake doing this, it's more likely to happen when you're asleep & the room is dark. Anyway, the towel itself is a good idea for adding privacy. :gj:

Posting pics: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

Thawing prey: FYI-there are many variations on this- you'll find many of us don't agree on exactly the best way.

I thaw in cool/cold tap water until rodent is soft thru-out (yes, I feel with my fingers to make sure nothing is still frozen inside).
Some keep the rodent in a plastic baggie, so the water doesn't wash off the scent- that's okay too, it will take a little longer to that that way, that's all. My snakes don't care, they're not fussy.

Some thaw in warm water- that actually can cause some spoilage on the outer parts of the rodent, while the inner part is still frozen. Snakes don't eat cooked prey, & many will reject spoiled food.

The time it takes to thaw mice depends on the size- the bigger they are, the longer it takes. (Large rats take the longest, due to size but also the thickness of their fur- it acts as insulation, even in water!) Changing the water when it gets really cold will help speed up the process.

Please don't thaw rodents by "setting them out on the countertop for a few hours" as some may advise- it promotes spoilage because it's the slowest way to thaw. Even if you thaw your own meat this way, remember that you're not eating it raw- cooking kills bacteria- & you're not eating the whole animal the way a snake is. (The gastrointestinal tract of rodents is loaded with bacteria that can hardly wait to be at room temperature to proliferate- don't make them happy. Snakes have a good sense of smell, & know when rodents are spoiled.)

Remember that temperatures change the most rapidly thru water- not thru air. (That's why thawing in water but with the rodent in a zip-lock baggy will take longer, because there's air inside too.) Speed is the best reason to thaw in water. Thawing in the fridge is safe, but very slow at 40*.

ONCE the prey is thawed, you can briefly immerse in warm water (a few minutes) and/or use a blow-dryer to warm it up so it seems alive (mostly the head, where the snake will target). Rodents have a high rate of metabolism- they have warm bodies which is what a snake with heat-sensing pits is searching for. They cool off quickly though, you need to offer quickly once it's warmed up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Heat pads (human type) or UTH (those made for reptile keeping) all NEED to be regulated with a thermostat, not just read by a thermometer. Otherwise they can easily overheat & kill your snake, or start a fire. (heat can build up, wires can short, etc) Safety is important, as is installing them properly (with a little air space for safety- recommended by the manufacturers, btw).

What's REALLY important is to take a temperature reading ON the glass INSIDE the tank where the snake might actually touch it if (WHEN!) they push the substrate back (which they will, sooner or later). You don't want that inside reading to exceed 89-90* max, okay? Snakes like BPs don't always know when they're too hot- maybe because they're heavy bodied & it takes a while to warm up their whole body? Anyway, "burns" are the result, they're painful for the snake, not fun to treat, can be costly (vet care!), can be serious (lead to infection & death) & are best prevented. ;)

Unless your room is totally in the dark, I'd leave the light OFF. BPs are nocturnal, & like most snakes, prefer dim lighting. Just the ambient room lighting should be fine & less stressful. This could be part of the problem. If you still think it's too dark, only use a dim bulb & not near the tank.

Humidity is usually an issue in a glass tank with a screen top- there's too much air-flow. Most using similar set-ups find they need to cover most of the screen with something that doesn't allow air-flow, some use tin foil, others use a piece of plexi, etc. If you look closely at the professionally made plastic enclosures that many use, you'll see how little ventilation there is- you need some, for sure, but that's an easy fix. Knowing that heat rises, it helps to have 2 "vents", one over the warm end will allow warm air to rise up & out, & one vent on the cool end, which will draw in fresh air to circulate thru.

The frequent spraying may also be startling to your snake- the breeder probably didn't do that. ;) Better to humidify the substrate somewhat, or offer a humid hide, & not spray. If most of the top (screen) is covered to block air-flow, that will likely fix the problem- humidity will stay in where it's needed.

You mentioned the towel that helps weigh down the top, that's why I wanted to make sure you know that snakes can & will push up on tops- they must be very secure. A towel is no match for a determined :snake: lol. You might never see your snake doing this, it's more likely to happen when you're asleep & the room is dark. Anyway, the towel itself is a good idea for adding privacy. :gj:

Posting pics: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

Thawing prey: FYI-there are many variations on this- you'll find many of us don't agree on exactly the best way.

I thaw in cool/cold tap water until rodent is soft thru-out (yes, I feel with my fingers to make sure nothing is still frozen inside).
Some keep the rodent in a plastic baggie, so the water doesn't wash off the scent- that's okay too, it will take a little longer to that that way, that's all. My snakes don't care, they're not fussy.

Some thaw in warm water- that actually can cause some spoilage on the outer parts of the rodent, while the inner part is still frozen. Snakes don't eat cooked prey, & many will reject spoiled food.

The time it takes to thaw mice depends on the size- the bigger they are, the longer it takes. (Large rats take the longest, due to size but also the thickness of their fur- it acts as insulation, even in water!) Changing the water when it gets really cold will help speed up the process.

Please don't thaw rodents by "setting them out on the countertop for a few hours" as some may advise- it promotes spoilage because it's the slowest way to thaw. Even if you thaw your own meat this way, remember that you're not eating it raw- cooking kills bacteria- & you're not eating the whole animal the way a snake is. (The gastrointestinal tract of rodents is loaded with bacteria that can hardly wait to be at room temperature to proliferate- don't make them happy. Snakes have a good sense of smell, & know when rodents are spoiled.)

Remember that temperatures change the most rapidly thru water- not thru air. (That's why thawing in water but with the rodent in a zip-lock baggy will take longer, because there's air inside too.) Speed is the best reason to thaw in water. Thawing in the fridge is safe, but very slow at 40*.

ONCE the prey is thawed, you can briefly immerse in warm water (a few minutes) and/or use a blow-dryer to warm it up so it seems alive (mostly the head, where the snake will target). Rodents have a high rate of metabolism- they have warm bodies which is what a snake with heat-sensing pits is searching for. They cool off quickly though, you need to offer quickly once it's warmed up.

---

Noted! I ordered a heat mat thermostat controller that should arrive this afternoon so I can make sure that the heat mat is regulated. I definitely do not want her to get burned or hurt. I do have a humidity hide I can use instead of spraying the tank, would that be enough to keep her satisfied? I'll also use aluminum foil for the top with some vents as well.

As for the food, I'll give it a try next week after making those adjustments and leaving her alone. Anything else you recommend?

I'll add an update next Friday too!

If she has a good humid hide that should help a lot. I'd still try to keep some humidity in the substrate (but without spraying the whole enclosure), & keep in mind that the humid hide will dry out- you'll need to check probably once a week to replenish the moisture, because the warmth BPs need in their homes keeps drying it out (not to mention how dry it is in Arizona, lol). ;) Yes, do let us know how it's going? We want you to get her figured out & doing well. :gj:

UPDATE!!!!!!

My sweet girl ate!! I added some black liner around three sides of her tank to give her a little less going on around her, and regulated the airflow with some aluminum tape. I also got a thermostat that automatically adjusted the temperature of the heating pad to keep it consistent. Was offering every two weeks, this was the second time offering two weeks apart and I used a infrared thermometer to make sure I nailed the mouse's temperature and she was tentative at first, but I put it in near her hide and backed away and she gently dragged it in with her.

I'm beyond happy. I was so worried she was sick. Thank you all for your suggestions! I think adding the few things to her tank and thawing just right helped her become comfortable enough to eat a meal. Seriously, thank you.

AWESOME UPDATE! :D :gj: :dance:

Hopefully feeding her will get easier now, & while it's good not to stress out a snake that's not eating by offering "too often", she really ought to be eating more like once a week or every 10 days now at the most, so I'd watch & see if you see signs that she's looking for food again in a week or so. It's usually that first meal taken that breaks the ice & gets a snake feeding again, especially one that's 6+ mos. old. It sure feels good to figure out what they needed- snakes can be very frustrating when they won't eat.

Congratulations!! Another one bites the rat! If they’re healthy animals, and their temps are good, then they ALL eat eventually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

...Another one bites the rat! ...

---

That would make a good song...:cool:

Yes, I think getting everything down to a T and being super vigilant about all the details made it work. She's about 81 grams as of tonight and I'm going to continue feeding her every 7-10 days until she's about 200 grams or when she's ready to eat something the next size up. She's definitely underweight from not eating for as long as she did but she seems happy and healthy right now. She hasn't pooped yet but she has peed which is another good sign to me. Never thought I'd be excited about that :)Regardless, she's back on track! I plan on feeding her again tomorrow.

Thank you all! I really value your help <3