no pest strip question

I would NOT spray the snake, just the enclosure. And I don't know enough about frontline to recommend it. Lately if I don't use PAM, I've used something with the same active ingredient which is Permethrin

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Originally Posted by schoch79

Yeah I have no intentions of putting any of the strip in the enclosure. As for the frontline....is it safe to the point I can just spray the snake and enclosure and be done with it or do I need to make sure to clean up after spraying, for example can I just open the enclosure and start spraying with the snake still in it and leave it at that or do I have to spray and let it air out kinda thing?

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You don't want to put the snake in a confined environment with the fumes, so no. For the snake, I sprayed it on a paper towel and wiped her down well, then rinsed her off and put her in a QT tank on paper towels. For the tank, I sprayed every surface VERY heavily. Make sure to get any cracks, crevices, lips, overhangs, seams, and gaps. I even put plastic wrap over any ventilation openings to completely seal the tank so the little bastards couldn't escape their doom.

As far as water dishes, hides, and furnishings, I had one piece of sandblasted grapevine I wanted to keep, so I doused it with mite off and put it outside in a black trash bag for a few days. Bowls and hides went in the dishwasher on the "blast furnace" setting. All bedding got thrown out.

After sitting for a couple days, the tank got rinsed out really well. 30 days later, I retreated the tank, rinsed, dried, set it back up, and moved Ajja back in.

I might have gone slightly over the top, but I'm REALLY OCD with my animals.

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You need to do more research on this to do it, but RID for lice works. The active ingredient needs to be permethrin as mentioned. Don't put it on the snake directly and make sure it is properly diluted to be safe. There are threads on this site that will describe but figured this is a point in a good direction. I wouldn't personally put anything directly on the snake except the mite spray at the pet store that was mentioned as being sold by Petco.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

You need to do more research on this to do it, but RID for lice works. The active ingredient needs to be permethrin as mentioned. Don't put it on the snake directly and make sure it is properly diluted to be safe. There are threads on this site that will describe but figured this is a point in a good direction. I wouldn't personally put anything directly on the snake except the mite spray at the pet store that was mentioned as being sold by Petco.

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Just to clarify what I said about Frontline ON the snake, I wouldn't have done it or suggested it had it not been what my vet instructed. Aside from that, MrLang is correct. No pesticides should be applied to the snake unless SPECIFICALLY formulated for that purpose.

As always, if you have ANY doubts or concerns, consult a qualified veterinarian.

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Honestly all that stuff can work but it's not what it's designed for.

PAM(Provent-a-Mite) creates a barrier for the mites and once dry it's still effective at killing mites. The harmful thing about PAM is the fumes. If you use as directed after about 15 minutes the fumes are gone and it's dry. You could open a window with a fan to help with the fumes. This barrier lasts for at least 30 days, but longer than that some people say, but if I were fighting mites I'd treat once a month for three months, to be safe. Once it's dry it's no longer harmful to the snake so you can put the snake back in the tub. What I do is I spray a cloth and I rub the lips of the tubs and the base of the tubs. Then the animal in quarantine I wipe all around the outside and openings of the tub/tank and spray the bedding without the water bowl. You can put the water bowl back because once PAM is dry it's no longer a risk to your animal.

Now the Reptile Relief/Reptile Spray can be used on the animal because it works different. Once dry this apparently loses it's effectiveness as well. What it does is it eats away at the mites shell and then salt or something else in it dries it up. This works great IF you get all the mites. You aren't supposed to spray this around the head but you can spray on the body of the snake and I'll usually rub the snake down a few times with a sprayed paper towel to try to work it in and under the scales. I'll sometimes use a cute tip for under the head where the bottom of the jaw where they like to hide as well. Then after letting them soak with that stuff for about 15-20 minutes I'll rinse the snake off really well and then I'll put a tub of water with a top on and I'll put the snake in the tub. The snake usually figures out that soaking helps with the mites so within a few minutes they stop slithering all over. My PL that is in QT because he had mites from a breeder at the show even learned that submerging fully helped as well. Then after about 15-20 minutes of soaking I'll dry them off with a towel and then I'll get something slightly stiff but thin like a torn piece of a magazine and fold it once and I'll look backwards under the scales of the snake and I'll gently swipe the mites out and kill them if they're not already dead. My PL also learned that when I put his head upside down I'm doing just that so he's making it a lot easier on me than I've had to deal with other new snakes. That along with the PAM in the enclosure and all around openings will help you resolve this issue.

The reason I say about preventative treatment is because even being in a different room, mites can still crawl, something around 11 inches per minute if I'm not mistaken so while you may of treated your snake a mite or two may of gotten away and heading towards your new collection. So the preventative step makes sure you don't end up with mites in a few weeks again.

EDIT:
So while RID and that other stuff might work, it's meant for lice, not for snake mites. Yes, it has Permethrin in it, but that's a wide term. If I say the term soap, I could be talking about Ivory bar soap or soap that you wash your clothes with(Detergent). The fact is they're both considered Soap and while Permethrin has a lot of diff aspects of it, some are safer for your snake and some aren't. So do it the right way if you're going to do it.

BTW, no offense to you RID guys.

The active ingredient in Frontline is called fipronil. Just doing a google search on "fipronil snake mite" is enough to scare me out of using it as it appears to be more toxic to snakes than permethrin.
http://www.karingalvet.com.au/Pet-Ca...tile-Mites.asp
http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/I...nt_snake_mites
http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Boa...s/1791835.html


Also, it does not seem to persist as well as permethrin-based products, so it won't affect any newly-hatched mites.

PAM is a 0.5% permethrin solution in an aerosol can. One 2-oz (59 ml) bottle of NIX/RID lice treatment (available at WalMart, CVS, Rite-Aid, etc.) mixed very well with 1 gallon of water also produces a 0.5% permethrin solution if you need to purchase something fast and don't want to wait to have the PAM shipped. You will need to get your own spray bottle, obviously one that has never been (and will never be) used for any other chemical product. Use it just on the enclosure, substrate (paper towels), and hides, and allow them all to dry completely before putting your snake back. Do not use it on the water dish. Some people spray their snakes with it, I do not as permethrin poisoning is a risk. Instead I treat the snake by soaking in water with just a drop of mild dish soap like Dawn (it drowns the mites per my vet) and/or with a product like Reptile Spray that is formulated to use on the snake. I just spray a paper towel and gently wipe the snake with it and let them crawl across it, and use a q-tip for under the chin, as most snakes hate getting sprayed.

Keep the permethrin bottle out of direct sunlight and it will be good for 30 days. I re-treat clean paper towels and allow them to dry before replacing soiled ones in the enclosure.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

The active ingredient in Frontline is called fipronil. Just doing a google search on "fipronil snake mite" is enough to scare me out of using it as it appears to be more toxic to snakes than permethrin.
http://www.karingalvet.com.au/Pet-Ca...tile-Mites.asp
http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/I...nt_snake_mites
http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Boa...s/1791835.html


Also, it does not seem to persist as well as permethrin-based products, so it won't affect any newly-hatched mites.

PAM is a 0.5% permethrin solution in an aerosol can. One 2-oz (59 ml) bottle of NIX/RID lice treatment (available at WalMart, CVS, Rite-Aid, etc.) mixed very well with 1 gallon of water also produces a 0.5% permethrin solution if you need to purchase something fast and don't want to wait to have the PAM shipped. You will need to get your own spray bottle, obviously one that has never been (and will never be) used for any other chemical product. Use it just on the enclosure, substrate (paper towels), and hides, and allow them all to dry completely before putting your snake back. Do not use it on the water dish. Some people spray their snakes with it, I do not as permethrin poisoning is a risk. Instead I treat the snake by soaking in water with just a drop of mild dish soap like Dawn (it drowns the mites per my vet) and/or with a product like Reptile Spray that is formulated to use on the snake. I just spray a paper towel and gently wipe the snake with it and let them crawl across it, and use a q-tip for under the chin, as most snakes hate getting sprayed.

Keep the permethrin bottle out of direct sunlight and it will be good for 30 days. I re-treat clean paper towels and allow them to dry before replacing soiled ones in the enclosure.

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I'm not sure what it was that scared you. I googled it myself, and almost the entire first page of results were recommendations FOR it. The one sorta negative thing I found was a comment about a solution of 9.5% fipronil. The bottle I'm looking at is a .29% solution. Additionally, as the first link you posted states, the vast majority of adverse outcomes are in very young, sick snakes, mostly Boas, and are caused by the alcohol carrier rather than fipronil its self.

As I said before, I wouldn't suggest it had it not been specifically prescribed by an extremely knowledgeable, VERY experienced, respected reptile vet. Not only is he a member of ARAV, he's also the founder and first president.

Not trying to bust your chops or be argumentative, I just want to point out that this isn't just some crazy idea I came up with on my own.

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Gotta admit this is the first time I've heard of a vet recommending frontline for snake mites. Like I said I don't know much about the product so I've never used it. You said it was a .29% solution of fipronil? How did he recommend applying it? Does it last a long time in the enclosure or does it degrade quickly? How often should it be re-applied?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Gotta admit this is the first time I've heard of a vet recommending frontline for snake mites. Like I said I don't know much about the product so I've never used it. You said it was a .29% solution of fipronil? How did he recommend applying it? Does it last a long time in the enclosure or does it degrade quickly? How often should it be re-applied?

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I can't find the actual care sheet he gave me, otherwise I'd post it. Basically my post #12 above is the process. Just don't spray the head, rinse well, and treat the tank again after, I think, 20 days? I'm drawing a blank on the life cycle of a mite, but the 2nd treatment is to get rid of the ones who hadn't hatched yet.

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Thanks for all the advice guys. I was just out getting some mice and decided to get some lice shampoo. I decided to try the enzyme stuff right on the snake one last time before the shampoo and it does seem to work on killing the mites so I gave it another shot in the enclosure. I really soaked everything this time so only time will tell. If it doesn't work I guess its time for the shampoo. It's called Kleen Free Naturally if you guys wanted to check it out. The reviews rate everywhere from this stuff is great for bed bugs/scabies to this is garbage don't waste your money LOL. Again, this stuff is sold as a cleaning product and not a bug killer. I was recommended this product when I put in an order for hypoaspis mites but was told the couldn't ship them because the cold weather would kill them. The guy asked me what I wanted the mites for and explained to me that I should try this. He however did explain that the fda or whoever regulates stuff like this doesn't legally allow this stuff to be said that it can kill mites but it does. I think he said it worked as a desiccant. Anyway I'm done rambling. Thanks again for all the info.