Half ball python Half blood python

Does anybody have pic's of these cross breds or owns one?

its a hybrid, called a superball.

google it and i thnk that rdr or somebody has been making them, and proved out a 2nd gen. they are flippin sweet, and mos def on my future list to get.

Hybrids do not appeal to me at all, and I don't agree with breeding them. But they are interesting to look at.

I've seen em in person and held it, not a fan.

I don't like hybridization either, so maybe my opinion is biased.

You ever take your snake to the vet?

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Originally Posted by Oroborous

Hybrids do not appeal to me at all, and I don't agree with breeding them. But they are interesting to look at.

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that seems to be the general consensus, but they are still really pretty awesome and way different from anything else. if you are looking into hybrids you should check out the carpall and wall pythons. they are a carpetXball and a womaXball:gj:

Does anyone know exactly which species the superball was produced from? I keep hearing "blood python", but do they mean red blood, black blood, or short tailed borneo?

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Originally Posted by hawaiianice99

its a hybrid, called a superball.

google it and i thnk that rdr or somebody has been making them,

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Haha, I think Ralph would have a fit if someone accused him of making hybrids. He's not a fan. And I wouldn't blame him, I'm not a fan of hybrids either.

What you're thinking of is Roussis Reptiles, it's a borneo short tailed python X ball python cross. Here is a link to some pics

http://www.roussisreptiles.com/colle...lls/super.html

Isn't it amazing how many people hate hybrid snakes but unknowingly or knowingly keep/eat hybrids of other species? If you hate hybrids that much, put down that hamburger folks, and euthanize your ferrets which as suspected to be an ancient hybrid. :) Ok, just messing with you anti-hybrid folk. I don't want this to snowball into a discussion.

There is a guy here in town I think that is making the superballs. I have to say they look freaking sweet. I would never own one. I have no problem with them. They just don't appeal to me as something to own. They look pretty. Just no interest in them...

Ok, I guess I am going to walk over to my fishtank and feed my "Parrot Cichlids" now. ;)

Check out: www.roussisreptiles.com They have the superball and F2 superballs. They also sell a hybrid called the Mongrel!

The Mongrel ball is a superball bred back to a Ball Python. So thats what, 33% Blood and 66% Ball?

Stormwulf, the thing thats bad about hybrids, is when they end up in irresponsible hands. In they're own right and in the right hands, hybrids CAN be OK. Morally wrong in my eyes, but can be raised as pets none the less.

What I'm talking about in the wrong hands, is that you get animals that can have hidden genes/species DNA, that may not be so noticeable.

Now, if you just don't care what species of snake your about to buy, then go for it.

But I would rather avoid any confusion, and make sure what I'm buying is really what it's supposed to be.

Granted there are hybrid farm animals and what not...which is a whole 'nother issue altogether, but in the reptile community, I personally think people should stop playing God. I hope this didn't come off as an attack, but merely an opinion from the other side:)


Just my 2 pennies:D

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

I personally think people should stop playing God. I hope this didn't come off as an attack, but merely an opinion from the other side:)


Just my 2 pennies:D

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Not trying to argue just pointing out that some one "playing god" made the bumble bee and many other of our most prized morphs.


I don't want to argue just pointing out the obvious.

By the way I would really like to get a blood and do some hybridizing...

I just need to learn more of the genetics!

Mike

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

The Mongrel ball is a superball bred back to a Ball Python. So thats what, 33% Blood and 66% Ball?

Stormwulf, the thing thats bad about hybrids, is when they end up in irresponsible hands. In they're own right and in the right hands, hybrids CAN be OK. Morally wrong in my eyes, but can be raised as pets none the less.

What I'm talking about in the wrong hands, is that you get animals that can have hidden genes/species DNA, that may not be so noticeable.

Now, if you just don't care what species of snake your about to buy, then go for it.

But I would rather avoid any confusion, and make sure what I'm buying is really what it's supposed to be.

Granted there are hybrid farm animals and what not...which is a whole 'nother issue altogether, but in the reptile community, I personally think people should stop playing God. I hope this didn't come off as an attack, but merely an opinion from the other side:)


Just my 2 pennies:D

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Ummm...this whole forum is about taking genetic defects and emphasizing them. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Soterios

Ummm...this whole forum is about taking genetic defects and emphasizing them. :rofl:

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There is a difference between genetics of BP's (WC is how this all morph stuff started) and crossing 2 different species that would not naturally breed together in the wild.

Like SPJ said, I'm all for selective breeding within a species to produce pattern mutations. But breeding a snake from arid Africa and a snake from the tropics of Malaysia isn't right.

Sorry to hijack the thread OP.

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Originally Posted by Soterios

Ummm...this whole forum is about taking genetic defects and emphasizing them. :rofl:

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I really dig the pics of the carpalls that I've been able to find online. Neat looking snakes.

A lot of people seem to have a very strong opinion on hybrids but I don't mind them so long as the offspring are healthy and can lead decent lives.

Never seen these type of snakes before, They look interesting, but to me a BP is the cutest thing ever.

Not sure why people have such strong opinions about them though. (not asking)

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Does anyone know exactly which species the superball was produced from? I keep hearing "blood python", but do they mean red blood, black blood, or short tailed borneo?

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It was a P. Curtus.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

There is a difference between genetics of BP's (WC is how this all morph stuff started) and crossing 2 different species that would not naturally breed together in the wild.

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Damn straight!!

The Mongrel is too far, in no time we are not going to know if our ball pythons are 1/32 blood or not if it keeps going on.

I like em. I don't have issues with hybrids that can't be sold as pure. Nobody in their right mind would think a superball was a normal blood or ball. Lots of Morelia crosses are tough to distinguish. Those are the ones that could be bred out and sold as standard species which lead to unethical sales and such.

Connie, isn't the cross with a Regius and a Breitensteini? And not Curtus? I have seen the Curtus cross, but I thought the first ones were with the Breit's.

I was sure Roussis' site said p. curtus for the superball. I guess I'd have to go check back.

Your right, it was a marble Breit. :oops: I was lingering on when he said breeding it back to the Curtus or Regius, he must have been using the old labelling of 'p. curtus breitensteini'.

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Originally Posted by hoax

Not trying to argue just pointing out that some one "playing god" made the bumble bee and many other of our most prized morphs.


I don't want to argue just pointing out the obvious.

By the way I would really like to get a blood and do some hybridizing...

I just need to learn more of the genetics!

Mike

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Yeah but those aren't really hybrids they are the same species of snake just with genetic mutations affecting appearance. The people on here are against true hybridization meaning the superball for example half blood python Python curtus breitensteini and the ball python python regius. But i never hear any complaints about the creamsicle corn which is actually a corn and rat snake if i remember correctly. Now I Can care less either way on this subject but thought I Would point that out.

imo, hybridization is the TRUE power of man's idea of selective breeding toward a predetermined goal. true breeding and inbreeding create stagnated breeds (look at some of the dog breeds, or better yet, the spider "spin" syndrome). to ensure vigor and health/resistance/resiliance, one must introduce new genes.

i'm not saying the bp should be replaced, but i am saying a new "breed" can be created because man decided to make his version of the perfect snake (kinda like how dog breeds are created...).

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

imo, hybridization is the TRUE power of man's idea of selective breeding toward a predetermined goal. true breeding and inbreeding create stagnated breeds (look at some of the dog breeds, or better yet, the spider "spin" syndrome). to ensure vigor and health/resistance/resiliance, one must introduce new genes.

i'm not saying the bp should be replaced, but i am saying a new "breed" can be created because man decided to make his version of the perfect snake (kinda like how dog breeds are created...).

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Two problems with your argument.

First off, the original spider came from the wild with the wobbling that you see in some of them. So there goes that argument.

Secondly, dog breeds are still the same species. They weren't created by breeding a dog and say, a fox. As far as I know, they were line bred to create the different breeds.

Breeding a ball python with a blood does NOT create a new "breed", it creates a mutt, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Two problems with your argument.

First off, the original spider came from the wild with the wobbling that you see in some of them. So there goes that argument.

Secondly, dog breeds are still the same species. They weren't created by breeding a dog and say, a fox. As far as I know, they were line bred to create the different breeds.

Breeding a ball python with a blood does NOT create a new "breed", it creates a mutt, plain and simple.

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But it's a cool looking mutt. IMO

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

imo, hybridization is the TRUE power of man's idea of selective breeding toward a predetermined goal. true breeding and inbreeding create stagnated breeds (look at some of the dog breeds, or better yet, the spider "spin" syndrome). to ensure vigor and health/resistance/resiliance, one must introduce new genes.

i'm not saying the bp should be replaced, but i am saying a new "breed" can be created because man decided to make his version of the perfect snake (kinda like how dog breeds are created...).

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Your comment invariably goes against everything that natural selection embodies.

What you are referring to is not correct in your description. Yes, inbreeding can cause weakness, this is why we "refresh" blood lines, with the same species.

I do not believe humans can "choose" any better than nature itself, and nature chooses survival of the strongest gene's by several different methods.

If constant hybridizing of species was the best route overall, don't you think that nature would often be crossing species, in the shortest amount of time, to constantly stir the "gene pool"?

If crossing species to make hybrids was the best method hands down, nature would already be hybridizing EVERYTHING constantly (do not confuse hybridizing with simple adaptive evolution). This is simply not the case. There are several ways that nature provides circumstances that ensure survival of individual species, and furthering the mating of two animals from within the same species.

I would recommend taking a biology class and learning about all the ways adaptive evolution and natural selection work.

Never heard of the spider "spin " syndrome. Forever learning. Sounds like every one likes hybrids to me. I figured the Mongrel would shake things up a bit. I think the hybrids are for that special someone. I like them, but like many others will not be getting any. I like balls and bloods and don't care to meet in the middle.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

I've seen em in person and held it, not a fan.

I don't like hybridization either, so maybe my opinion is biased.

You ever take your snake to the vet?

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i didn't everybody say's it will come off ... so far he shows no signs of it hurting him so yah .... but he hasnt shed which is what im waiting for ... almost a month

the pictures are f'n kool man thanks

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Two problems with your argument.

First off, the original spider came from the wild with the wobbling that you see in some of them. So there goes that argument.

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actually, it helps back my idea. mutations can lead to defects as well as pretty colors or patterns. proof that this happens can be found in a wild caught specimen. thinking about natural selection, do you think the spider trait would thrive in the wild? i don't....

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Secondly, dog breeds are still the same species. They weren't created by breeding a dog and say, a fox. As far as I know, they were line bred to create the different breeds.

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so was the wolf the ONLY dog in the world then? and all dogs are bred from that one line? no, i'm sorry. that's not accurate. breeds are created by "hybridizing" this breed with that, back crossing to this, outcrossing to that, stabilizing for traits, and inbreeding for stability.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Breeding a ball python with a blood does NOT create a new "breed", it creates a mutt, plain and simple.

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after six generations of inbred hybridization you have a new "strain". so yes, man CAN create new things by selective breeding.

if you REALLY want to see how it works, try breeding beans, peppers or tomatoes.

my point here is if someone really wanted to spend the time, they could create a true breeding line of hybrid ball/blood. after so many gererations (usually six, sometimes more), you have a stable line of hybrid that will produce offspring identical to the parents.

as much breeding that goes on around here, one would think arguments like this would never occur.

to those who think you shouldn't play god by breeding mutts, sell your bp morphs and get out of the hobby.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

to those who think you shouldn't play god by breeding mutts, sell your bp morphs and get out of the hobby.

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Your argument does not hold water. A ball python bred to a ball python does not create mutts. A ball python bred to any other species does. Just because a ball python has a genetic mutation (color / pattern) does not mean that it is not a ball python, therefore, breeding it to another ball python does not create mutts.

My thought on hybrids is that they muddy bloodlines. I do not want an animal with muddy bloodline in my breeding stock. Anyone that sells hybrids increases the chance that breeders who feel the same way I do will end up with animals with muddy bloodlines.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

so was the wolf the ONLY dog in the world then? and all dogs are bred from that one line? no, i'm sorry. that's not accurate. breeds are created by "hybridizing" this breed with that, back crossing to this, outcrossing to that, stabilizing for traits, and inbreeding for stability.

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Actually yes, the wolf was/is the only dog. All dogs are just different variants of the same animal. That IS accurate.

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Originally Posted by Soterios

Actually yes, the wolf was/is the only dog. All dogs are just different variants of the same animal. That IS accurate.

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I saw an interesting show a few years back about wild dogs. It seems that where ever in the world that there are feral dog populations where people do NOT control their breeding, they all start looking the same after a while. They eventually all are medium-large bodied dogs with long muzzles, pointed ears and curly tails. It's as if nature has a default look in mind. In short, they start looking more and more like wolves.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I saw an interesting show a few years back about wild dogs. It seems that where ever in the world that there are feral dog populations where people do NOT control their breeding, they all start looking the same after a while. They eventually all are medium-large bodied dogs with long muzzles, pointed ears and curly tails. It's as if nature has a default look in mind. In short, they start looking more and more like wolves.

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I'll attest to that. I spent many days in Afghanistan hunting and killing feral dogs that were casunig problems to food stores, and general safety. They almost all look exactly as Mark described. Funny how nature works isn't it.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

actually, it helps back my idea. mutations can lead to defects as well as pretty colors or patterns. proof that this happens can be found in a wild caught specimen. thinking about natural selection, do you think the spider trait would thrive in the wild? i don't....

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How can you even fathom how the spider morph thrives, or doesn't, in the wild. Just the fact that it was found and brought to captivity should be proof enough that this gene has been successful enough to be not only a dominant gene, but found by humans and bred for.

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so was the wolf the ONLY dog in the world then? and all dogs are bred from that one line? no, i'm sorry. that's not accurate. breeds are created by "hybridizing" this breed with that, back crossing to this, outcrossing to that, stabilizing for traits, and inbreeding for stability.

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YES, the wolf was domesticated by humans, and is the SOLE ancestor for our traditional dog breeds! They were NOT hybridized. You are completely wrong on that one...

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after six generations of inbred hybridization you have a new "strain". so yes, man CAN create new things by selective breeding.

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Plants are a lot easier to "hybridize" than animals. However, a lot of genes are just plain incompatible. Look it up!

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if you REALLY want to see how it works, try breeding beans, peppers or tomatoes.

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Plants and animals can barely even be used in the same context. Plants are much easier to hybridize and cross than animals. Even then, it can be very difficult from within the same family.

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my point here is if someone really wanted to spend the time, they could create a true breeding line of hybrid ball/blood. after so many gererations (usually six, sometimes more), you have a stable line of hybrid that will produce offspring identical to the parents.

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Name one other animal hybrid that has successfully been bred down 6 times to create a new species entirely. Oh, and by humans. ;)

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as much breeding that goes on around here, one would think arguments like this would never occur.

to those who think you shouldn't play god by breeding mutts, sell your bp morphs and get out of the hobby.

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Again, morphs are the same species!

You really don't understand biology?? :confused:

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Two problems with your argument.


Secondly, dog breeds are still the same species. They weren't created by breeding a dog and say, a fox. As far as I know, they were line bred to create the different breeds.

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You do not know that. We actually don't know what the domestic dog is in total.

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Originally Posted by Soterios

Actually yes, the wolf was/is the only dog. All dogs are just different variants of the same animal. That IS accurate.

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There are several scientists that dispute this.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

How can you even fathom how the spider morph thrives, or doesn't, in the wild. Just the fact that it was found and brought to captivity should be proof enough that this gene has been successful enough to be not only a dominant gene, but found by humans and bred for.




YES, the wolf was domesticated by humans, and is the SOLE ancestor for our traditional dog breeds! They were NOT hybridized. You are completely wrong on that one...


Plants are a lot easier to "hybridize" than animals. However, a lot of genes are just plain incompatible. Look it up!

Plants and animals can barely even be used in the same context. Plants are much easier to hybridize and cross than animals. Even then, it can be very difficult from within the same family.



Name one other animal hybrid that has successfully been bred down 6 times to create a new species entirely. Oh, and by humans. ;)



Again, morphs are the same species!

You really don't understand biology?? :confused:

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i think a butterfly and sum black kite bird but not 6 times

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

My thought on hybrids is that they muddy bloodlines. I do not want an animal with muddy bloodline in my breeding stock.

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Racist.

I hate hitting post before I am done. Anyway, there are several scientists still out there that think other canines were used, though only in minute amounts, when creating the dog.

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Originally Posted by stormwulf133

i hate hitting post before i am done. Anyway, there are several scientists still out there that think other canines were used, though only in minute amounts, when creating the dog.

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sum that dont exist too rite

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Plants are a lot easier to "hybridize" than animals. However, a lot of genes are just plain incompatible. Look it up!

Plants and animals can barely even be used in the same context. Plants are much easier to hybridize and cross than animals. Even then, it can be very difficult from within the same family.

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Fairly certain I am not understanding the point here. Plants cant be used as an example because they are easier to cross?

I hope all of you anti hybrid people don't own a ferret as they are suspected by many researchers to be hybrids. If you own a fish tank, flush your platies, parrot cichlids, and flowerhorns.

I wouldn't recommend picking up a hamburger either. As follows the list of hybrid cattle you may be eating....

* Amerifax: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Estonian Red cattle (Dairy/beef)
* Groningen: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Hays Converter: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Hybridmaster: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Illawara: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Israeli Red: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Jamaica Black: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Karan Swiss: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Limpurger: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Madura cattle: Banteng/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef/draught/racing)
* Nguni: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Sanhe: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef/draught)
* Selembu: cattle/gayal hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Siboney: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Beef/draught)
* Xingjiang Brown: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef/draught)

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Originally Posted by stormwulf133

Fairly certain I am not understanding the point here. Plants cant be used as an example because they are easier to cross?

I hope all of you anti hybrid people don't own a ferret as they are suspected by many researchers to be hybrids. If you own a fish tank, flush your platies, parrot cichlids, and flowerhorns.

I wouldn't recommend picking up a hamburger either. As follows the list of hybrid cattle you may be eating....

* Amerifax: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Estonian Red cattle (Dairy/beef)
* Groningen: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Hays Converter: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Hybridmaster: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Illawara: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Israeli Red: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Jamaica Black: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Karan Swiss: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Limpurger: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Madura cattle: Banteng/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef/draught/racing)
* Nguni: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Sanhe: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef/draught)
* Selembu: cattle/gayal hybrid (Dairy/beef)
* Siboney: Taurine/Zebu hybrid (Beef/draught)
* Xingjiang Brown: Taurine hybrid (Dairy/beef/draught)

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you must love hamburgers lol
that list just made me hungry

The thing is were not talking about cattle, were talking about keeping blood lines PURE among our REPTILES.

I hate to sound mean about it but...

Go ahead and produce some hybrid animals, I wont buy it from you. Neither will A LOT of people.

Hybrid snakes have no spot in my collection

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

the thing is were not talking about cattle, were talking about keeping blood lines pure among our reptiles. Think about this...and call me a bad guy because of it...but if i were ever to be in the market for a new snake...

I won't buy it if it's a hybrid
i wont buy it if it's suspected to be a hybrid either on my end or yours
i won't buy it if your producing hybrids, and theres any chance there was a mixup
i would spread the word around that your producing hybrids to inform others

hybrid snakes have no spot in my collection, and i could be your potential customer.

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couldnt a hybrid be considered pure though afters years in the making ?

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

The thing is were not talking about cattle, were talking about keeping blood lines PURE among our REPTILES.

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Why is it ok for one persons species of animals but not anothers? Why is it ok, for one reason, but not another? All I am saying is there are a lot of people that are ok with it in some instances but not others. Shouldn't it be black and white?

That being said, I probably wouldn't buy a hybrid ball, or a carpet. I do however have a creamsicle corn but there is still argument over that, that is a whole nother story. It does however, give you something to think about. Why is it ok sometimes and not others?

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Originally Posted by harm286

couldnt a hybrid be considered pure though afters years in the making ?

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Nope.
A hybrid is a hybrid permanently. Even if some people don't realize it was a hybrid, it still is because it's not the original natural species.

Sorry, but guess what, it doesn't matter how much you argue about the situation, many people will not purchase from hybrid owners (and many people will check). I for one, will avoid purchasing even a 'pure' bloodline from a breeder with hybrids (that they bred or are breeding). I don't trust their stock, unless I know them well personally.

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Originally Posted by stormwulf133

Why is it ok for one persons species of animals but not anothers? Why is it ok, for one reason, but not another? All I am saying is there are a lot of people that are ok with it in some instances but not others. Shouldn't it be black and white?

That being said, I probably wouldn't buy a hybrid ball, or a carpet. I do however have a creamsicle corn but there is still argument over that, that is a whole nother story. It does however, give you something to think about. Why is it ok sometimes and not others?

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I don't support even cattle hybrids, because they are still mud in my mind.
Your choosing to eat them, not me. ;)

I don't see where it's ok ever. It only seems that your seeing it as ok from what you think other people think. I don't think any of it's ok in the least.

First off I'm glad we can all talk about stuff like this in an open forum, its nice to see others opinions and get each others feedback.

I would have to give my best response as an echo of Blackcrystal"s

With so many producing animals now a days, and herpers gaining more experience, you need to breed carefully. Breed for colors and mutations within the same species. Breed hybrids, or be known to harbor hybrids, and your going to cut your client el down significantly.

Thing is you just can't control what others do with your hybrids after they get them. It's too easy to end up with an animal that's X% another species.

The cattle deal, I don;t eat alot of beef anyways. But I still don't see the need to hybridize even those animals.

I guess the best answer to ME being selective and not being BLACK and WHITE, is personal preference.