New to this forum, Got a BEL, Shed question

Hello! I recently got my first BP, a Blue eyed lucy from a local reputable reptile shop. I set up the new fuy’s enclosure slowly a while before getting him, making sure i had perfect temps and humidity. Also made sure there is enough “clutter” to make him feel comfortable. I won’t get into the whole setup, unless requested.

I brought him home and put him in the enclosure and didn’t bother him for 7 days other than watching him breathe and changing his water haha. On the 7th day i went to get his first feeder (smallish rat pup, pre kill) same as what he was eating at the store. I got home and noticed, great, his eyes are dull. I knew that meant he was preparing to shed and so he probably wouldn’t eat. I still offered the rat and although he seemed very interested and excited, he denied it. So that was yesterday. Today i check on him and his eyes are back to clear, where i can clearly see his pupils. (his eyes are darkish blue with a black pupil, unlike some very bright blue BEL’s i’ve seen)

I didn’t think the hazy eyes faze would pass so quick, so maybe i mistakenly thought he was in shed? How obvious is the hazy eyes, especially with a BEL? I can very easily tell with other snakes with black eyes, but the normal blue eyes is throwing me off.

Thanks, Jason

Oh, I did take him out yesterday to get a closer look at his eyes, and even up close i couldn’t see his pupils. Today, without taking him out i could see the pupils.

Sorru if this is in the wrong section!

congrats on the new snake and welcome to BP.net!

cloudy pre-shed eyes are easier to notice against darker eyes and it might be harder for u to notice b/c u are new and your BP has blueish-silverish eyes. cloudy pre-shed eyes are greyish and ghostly. yes the snake clears up before the shedding and u will get better at picking up on the cues the longer u own your snake. my white snakes also get kinda pink going into shed.

also here's a long progression thread on a Lesser x Mojo BEL. she starts to shed around page 2: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...n-thread/page2 i'm sure if u scroll through the thread, there are plenty of other pix.

again, welcome and post pix of your new snake bb. :)

Thanks for the response Ax! Once i figure out how to post pics of him/her (don’t know sex atm) i will surely do so!

How soon after the wyes clearing up do they usually shed? Should i offer food again right after the shed?

Im only slightly worried due to him already looking thin to me. At the shop they said he had just eaten 4 days before i picked him up but he still looks quite little to me. Maybe once i post pics y’all can see if he’s lookin alright for me. :)

Thanks! Jason

I offer food one week after shedding as shedding is potentially stressful time for them, I clean shed because bp have a habit of emptying them selfs after shed then I leave alone for a week.

Some bp will eat when in shed some won’t.

If my bp refuse food I try again 7 days later.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamiekerk

I offer food one week after shedding as shedding is potentially stressful time for them, I clean shed because bp have a habit of emptying them selfs after shed then I leave alone for a week.

Some bp will eat when in shed some won’t.

If my bp refuse food I try again 7 days later.


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What does clean shed mean?

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Thanks for the response Ax! Once i figure out how to post pics of him/her (don’t know sex atm) i will surely do so!

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here's a tutorial on a few diff ways to post pix: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

How soon after the wyes clearing up do they usually shed?

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another 2-3 days on avg.

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Should i offer food again right after the shed?

Im only slightly worried due to him already looking thin to me. At the shop they said he had just eaten 4 days before i picked him up but he still looks quite little to me. Maybe once i post pics y’all can see if he’s lookin alright for me. :)

Thanks! Jason

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a healthy snake can go a long time - weeks or months w/o food. even a little or skinny one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamiekerk

I offer food one week after shedding as shedding is potentially stressful time for them, I clean shed because bp have a habit of emptying them selfs after shed then I leave alone for a week.

Some bp will eat when in shed some won’t.

If my bp refuse food I try again 7 days later.

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this is sound advice for feeding. u can even offer food much sooner if u notice your snake if hunt/feed mode.

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

What does clean shed mean?

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it means a whole, 1 piece complete shed from snoot to tail.

Thanks! Gotcha, i’m so excited to see his shed! I’m hopeful that it’s all one piece!

I guess i was just confused by the wording, i thought he meant to clean right after the shed. Haha!

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

What does clean shed mean?

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Sorry I missed a couple words I clean the tank of shed and any waste he produces


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Also, so far Blue (cliche name i know haha) has been very well tempered! When i held him to move him to the enclosure the first day he wasn’t balled up at all, and slithering around exploring my arms, not fast like to escape but just seemed curious. And even amongst shed, when i took him out to check out his eyes i didn’t even get a hiss or ball at all. Just checking out my arms again haha. Super happy with him! Now just to get him to eat after he sheds to ease my mind. (i tend to worry about my babies too much haha)

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

What does clean shed mean?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamiekerk

Sorry I missed a couple words I clean the tank of shed and any waste he produces

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oh there's that too Lol. and if your BP is really nice and polite, it will poop in it's shed making for super easy cleanup. it's like bagging up it's own poop.

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Originally Posted by Jamiekerk

Sorry I missed a couple words I clean the tank of shed and any waste he produces


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Ah gotcha. Thanks! I don’t think he has anything to poop out atm, so not sure i’ll even have to do that yet haha.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

oh there's that too Lol. and if your BP is really nice and polite, it will poop in it's shed making for super easy cleanup. it's like bagging up it's own poop.

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Too funny! I’m hoping to save his first few sheds as souvenirs so i’m kinda hoping that doesn’t happen :P

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Originally Posted by Ax01

oh there's that too Lol. and if your BP is really nice and polite, it will poop in it's shed making for super easy cleanup. it's like bagging up it's own poop.

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Mine doesn’t he poops in his hide and lays on ithttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5737ab2f74.jpg

Has hide right side of viv
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b245fce411.jpg

Just drops it in his hide filthy thing


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Bahaha! That’s hilarious. Such little characters they are.

So so hard to resist holding the sweet little dude!

He’s like Smaug guarding gold but instead gold it’s poop


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Here’s pics!

The ride home!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c5897d5b7c.jpg

“Herroo? Who’s there?”

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8a29a4c6c5.jpg

Yesterday (1/14), Hazy eyes (see what i mean by looking thin?)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...988a4b4efe.jpg

Today (1/15), eyes cleared up mostly. (pupils visible again)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3bc78ae008.jpg

I hope those pics turned out ok! If they’re too large or too small please lmk.

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Originally Posted by Jamiekerk

Mine doesn’t he poops in his hide and lays on it

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maybe he will stop squishing it and grow up to be a Poocasso and paint the walls with it instead. ;)

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Yesterday (1/14), Hazy eyes (see what i mean by looking thin?)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...988a4b4efe.jpg

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he can plump up a lil and lose the ridge on the spine a lil, but he's not anywhere near death starving.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

maybe he will stop squishing it and grow up to be a Poocasso and paint the walls with it instead. ;)


he can plump up a lil and lose the ridge on the spine a lil, but he's not anywhere near death starving.

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thanks! today his yellow patterning is very visible compared to precious days! although my goal was finding a super clean white BEL, i’m happy with this guy! such a sweetie so far and the yellow markings are growing on me!


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Also, to confirm. I have his humidity at 65ish-75ish%. His hotspot from a UTH is 93° F on the floor of the exo terra. Gradient up to 87° if he doesn’t burrow under the substrate at all. Cool side gets down to 76° at a minimum, and will only get warmer as i live in AZ.

I have a CHE to achieve the ambient temps hooked up to a Herpstat 2 along with the UTH hooked up to it as well.

Have a hide on both ends of the tank, water dish partially on the heat pad to create more humidity. And artificial plants to create some clutter.

Sound right?

I’m one of those paranoid keepers if y’all can’t tell yet haha!

Very cute new addition...congratulations and welcome!

The only thing I would change on your setup is to drop the uth to no more than 90F. They will burrow down to the heat source, so you want to be sure that it is no more than the high end of their range. If it’s too warm they often won’t use the warm end, prefering to stay too cool than uncomfortably warm. You also don’t want the uth to get hot enough to burn them, so kudos for having everything on a good thermostat. :clap:

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Originally Posted by Dianne

Very cute new addition...congratulations and welcome!

The only thing I would change on your setup is to drop the uth to no more than 90F. They will burrow down to the heat source, so you want to be sure that it is no more than the high end of their range. If it’s too warm they often won’t use the warm end, prefering to stay too cool than uncomfortably warm. You also don’t want the uth to get hot enough to burn them, so kudos for having everything on a good thermostat. :clap:

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Thanks! Hear me out, i had it set to 91 at first for the UTH. When i first brought him home he kept climbing into the fake vines to get closer to the CHE, or so that’s what my thought was. So i turned up his UTH to 93ish and he started going into his warm hide more.

Should i still try turning it down and see how it goes? I have the Herpstat probe hot glued to the inside of the tank, directly over the heat pad. I know there is a lot of controversy over if the probe should go on the inside or outside of the tank, but this made the most sense to me. I still check the temps every so often and check the highs and lows according to the Herpstat.


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Keep a close eye on that hot glue. It sucks at adhering to glass and WILL come loose. Underneath is optimal, but you know that already.

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Originally Posted by ryknoll3

Keep a close eye on that hot glue. It sucks at adhering to glass and WILL come loose. Underneath is optimal, but you know that already.

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Gotcha. Next time i do a deep clean i’ll use silicone instead.

Or maybe i’ll switch to underneath.

How about that, my name is Jason and I have a BEL also!

I see you've already got lots of great advice, but I'll chime in that the only downside to having a BEL is that it is so hard to tell when the shed is coming. My others all get that dull look to them even before the eyes go cloudy, which give plenty of warning that its coming. With a BEL, if you don't catch the eyes cloud, you may not even know they're going into shed. And the eyes clear up pretty quick so if you don't see her for two days (which is very possible with a BP) you won't even know.

You don't happen to know the genetics do you? My BEL is a russo/mojave. Perhaps one day she'll mate with my male clown, but that won't be for years and years, if ever.

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Originally Posted by JRLongton

How about that, my name is Jason and I have a BEL also!

I see you've already got lots of great advice, but I'll chime in that the only downside to having a BEL is that it is so hard to tell when the shed is coming. My others all get that dull look to them even before the eyes go cloudy, which give plenty of warning that its coming. With a BEL, if you don't catch the eyes cloud, you may not even know they're going into shed. And the eyes clear up pretty quick so if you don't see her for two days (which is very possible with a BP) you won't even know.

You don't happen to know the genetics do you? My BEL is a russo/mojave. Perhaps one day she'll mate with my male clown, but that won't be for years and years, if ever.

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Oh how crazy!! Haha yeah the only reason i caught the cloudy eyes is he likes sticking his head out of his hide!

I’m not sure of his genetics unfortunately. Because of his patterning i’m maybe thinking he could have some spider (pin?) but i didn’t know if that could result in a BEL. Maybe after a few sheds i’ll be able to get a better idea.

Would love a pic of your Bel!! :)

Oh another question, since he’s in shed should i pet a rock or something for him to rub on in his terrarium? He has a large water dish that has rocky sides, but i didn’t know if that was enough? Thanks!

Just fixed the Herpstat probe placement. It is now secured directly to the UTH instead of inside the terrarium. I have it set to 93 so that the inside of the terrarium floor is at 90°.

I ended up using electrical tape to secure the probe to the UTH, and at 2 other points on the table and right by the terrarium, so that it won’t come loose. (no tape was used on the inside of the enclosure)

Does that sound right?? I felt bad taking Blue out in order to get the probe off of the glass, since i think he’s in shed, but i figured it’s better to fix sooner than later. I did get to take some pics of him tho! Still not even positive if he’s in shed or not. Haha

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9e1ecd79cb.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...877246326c.jpg

What do y’all think? I guess i’ll know sooner or later if he’s in shed, but i’m impatient. Haha

I think he’s adorable, but have no clue if he’s in shed....can’t tell with my BEL Button either. :rolleyes:

Regarding the uth, I see that you moved the probe and you answered the next question I was going to ask, what is thermostat versus actual temp. :) Sounds like you’re spot on. If he still acts cold by trying to get to other heat sources, you can bump the uth up a degree or two, but just do so with caution.

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Originally Posted by Dianne

I think he’s adorable, but have no clue if he’s in shed....can’t tell with my BEL Button either. :rolleyes:

Regarding the uth, I see that you moved the probe and you answered the next question I was going to ask, what is thermostat versus actual temp. :) Sounds like you’re spot on. If he still acts cold by trying to get to other heat sources, you can bump the uth up a degree or two, but just do so with caution.

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Thanks! He’s definitely a cutie! And yeah oh well, guess i’ll know in a few days if i was right or not about him going into shed. I’ll offer food again on Sunday or Monday most likely.

Yeah, after thinking more about the probe being inside the tank i got all worried and had to go move it. I’m having a hard time measuring the temp of the glass inside the terrarium, since it just reflects the laser and gives an inaccurate reading. Any suggestions?

Was thinking maybe laying a piece of tissue paper on the glass over the UTH, and then measuring the temp of that so i don’t get a reflection.

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Haha dang. Oh well, guess i’ll know in a few days if i was right or not. I’ll offer food again on Sunday or Monday most likely.

Yeah, after thinking more about the probe being inside the tank i got all worried and had to go move it. I’m having a hard time measuring the temp of the glass inside the terrarium, since it just reflects the laser and gives an inaccurate reading. Any suggestions?

Was thinking maybe laying a piece of tissue paper on the glass over the UTH, and then measuring the temp of that so i don’t get a reflection.

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If it’s any consolation, I can’t tell when my albino, 2 bananas, or my dragonfly are going to shed either. The light colors just don’t show the dulling very well, until one day you have a shed in the cage. :confuzd:

I would think you could use something like tissue paper or parchment paper (baking supply) under the substrate so that the laser temp doesn’t reflect off the glass. You might have to wait for it to warm up for a few minutes to get an accurate reading if you’re just going to use it when you measure temps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianne

If it’s any consolation, I can’t tell when my albino, 2 bananas, or my dragonfly are going to shed either. The light colors just don’t show the dulling very well, until one day you have a shed in the cage. :confuzd:

I would think you could use something like tissue paper or parchment paper (baking supply) under the substrate so that the laser temp doesn’t reflect off the glass. You might have to wait for it to warm up for a few minutes to get an accurate reading if you’re just going to use it when you measure temps.

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Thanks!! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Thanks! He’s definitely a cutie! And yeah oh well, guess i’ll know in a few days if i was right or not about him going into shed. I’ll offer food again on Sunday or Monday most likely.

Yeah, after thinking more about the probe being inside the tank i got all worried and had to go move it. I’m having a hard time measuring the temp of the glass inside the terrarium, since it just reflects the laser and gives an inaccurate reading. Any suggestions?

Was thinking maybe laying a piece of tissue paper on the glass over the UTH, and then measuring the temp of that so i don’t get a reflection.

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Why do you think the measurement is inaccurate? The laser doesn't measure anything, it's just a pointing device so you can pinpoint what the sensor is measuring. Mine actually has an option to turn the laser off and it still measures. You should be confident measuring the glass that the measurement is correct.

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Originally Posted by ryknoll3

Why do you think the measurement is inaccurate? The laser doesn't measure anything, it's just a pointing device so you can pinpoint what the sensor is measuring. Mine actually has an option to turn the laser off and it still measures. You should be confident measuring the glass that the measurement is correct.

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Because it says in the directions that came with the temp gun to place a piece of tape on glass surfaces so that the infrared light doesn’t get reflected. I know for a fact that directly above my 93.5° UTH, the glass isn’t 77°. But inside the terrarium i didn’t want to put tape on the glass, so was just asking if others used tissue paper or something similar.

Maybe i’m missing something, because you do make a good point.

-Jason

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Because it says in the directions that came with the temp gun to place a piece of tape on glass surfaces so that the infrared light doesn’t get reflected. I know for a fact that directly above my 93.5° UTH, the glass isn’t 77°. But inside the terrarium i didn’t want to put tape on the glass, so was just asking if others used tissue paper or something similar.

Maybe i’m missing something, because you do make a good point.

-Jason

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Maybe place a small piece of card over the area and let it warm up ..


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So, update. He is in shed for sure. I found 2 small pieces of shed. Humidity is still around 75ish so don’t know why those pieces broke off but maybe he’s sitting on the rest. Haha, idk i’ll check tomorrow if i don’t see anything else before then.

Oh! First time seeing him thermoregulate, found him in his cool side hide! He’s always been in the hot spot hide in the past. :) Made me think the heat mat might’ve gotten too hot, but temp gun shows good temps and the Herpstat doesn’t show there were any spikes in temp.


-Jason

Well, looks like it’s gonna be a bad/stuck shed. Have no idea why though, his humidity has been perfect and i’ve gotten him fresh water everyday. His skin looks wrinkly, i’m hoping he’s not too dehydrated.

Not sure what to do at this point. Planning on checking on him again tomorrow and seeing if he gets more of the shed off. :(


-Jason

Advice? Tips?


-Jason

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Advice? Tips?


-Jason

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i would mist everything down and try to get everything off and let him take care of it himself.

if he still has large patches of stuck shed after a day, u could try this method: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hed-No-problem

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Originally Posted by Ax01

i would mist everything down and try to get everything off and let him take care of it himself.

if he still has large patches of stuck shed after a day, u could try this method: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hed-No-problem

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Thanks. Can you think of any reason why he would have a bad shed even with perfect humidity and temps?


-Jason

Maybe try a humidity hide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjBFKkbJrRE&t=1s
As long as your BP doesn't spend all day inside the humidity hide, it can be good to keep one in the enclosure at all times especially if it's a light coloured snake which makes it hard to tell when it's going into shed. If humidity isn't bumped up early enough in the shedding process the shed could end up being bad.

Bad sheds can also be caused by illnesses, malnutrition, and parasites but there are usually other signs of these problems if they are present.

Could it be that your hygrometer is inaccurate?

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Originally Posted by Luvyna

Maybe try a humidity hide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjBFKkbJrRE&t=1s
As long as your BP doesn't spend all day inside the humidity hide, it can be good to keep one in the enclosure at all times especially if it's a light coloured snake which makes it hard to tell when it's going into shed. If humidity isn't bumped up early enough in the shedding process the shed could end up being bad.

Bad sheds can also be caused by illnesses, malnutrition, and parasites but there are usually other signs of these problems if they are present.

Could it be that your hygrometer is inaccurate?

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Thanks for the suggestion. Am planning on doing that soon. The hygrometer is reading the same as another one that i have. So i’m almost certain it’s accurate.


-Jason

Random but interesting. Was checking on Blue and saw some mold on the grapevine branch i had in there for decoration. Hadn’t realized how poor grapevine is for holding up to humidity. Took that out and cleaned the areas it was touching. Yikes!


-Jason

Another thing now. Blue was out and about tonight exploring. I noticed just how dehydrated he really looks. I looked up pictures of other dehydrated snakes, and he definitely looks it to me. His humidity has been over 70% consistently for the past week and he’s had fresh water every day. I was concerned that he wasn’t actually drinking, but i watched him explore tonight and actually caught him in the act of sipping some water.

For the time being, to get him rehydrated i sprayed down the terrarium to get the humidity even higher and made a humid hide (don’t know if he’ll find it soon but figured it’s worth a shot)

If he’s still looking the same tomorrow, i’ll soak him to hopeful hydrate him. Any other suggestions or reasons why he’d be so dehydrated? (sorry for the blurry pics, was taken through the glass doors haha)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0796b044eb.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8c06ba8db9.jpg


-Jason

I bought myself a new baby BEL a couple of weeks ago and he was looking the same way! I found the AnimalBytesTV channel on youtube and followed the instructions for how to fix a bad shed in this particular video of theirs:
https://youtu.be/Z81K45K1YEU

And now he looks smooth and gorgeous again. Set aside a little over an hour for this and don't leave him alone in the tub - pet him & talk to him softly to keep him calm, make sure when he dunks his head under that he comes back up again & gently put him back into the water when he tries to crawl out.

What I did was set a timer for half an hour, then when the timer went off I'd rub him down to see if I could get the shed off. If it doesn't come off easy just reset the timer & try again in 30 more minutes. When the water goes cold put in more warm water.

It took one hour & 15 minutes for me to get all of mine's shed off & now he's beautiful and healthy looking again, all it takes is a little bit of patience and time :P

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Too funny! I’m hoping to save his first few sheds as souvenirs so i’m kinda hoping that doesn’t happen :P

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Oddly all my Royals shed their skins in one messy lump ,usually found under a hide days later ..

In my experience you don't get those lovely clean Corn snake or King snake sheds ..


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In extreme cases of stubborn shed or to treat dehydration I have soaked a snake for about 20 minutes and then I just wipe them down gently with a rough textured towel ... you just wrap it up in the towel and let it slither around inside ... when it's head pops out simply cover it up again ..

The skin all comes off nice and gently on the towel.


The easiest way I've found to ensure a perfect shed is to know your snake well .. as soon as they go into shed mode .. eyes glaze over / go blue and they fade in colour plus they disappear for a day or two.
I spray the viv well each day THEN as soon as the eyes clear and colour returns to normal you spray two or three times a day until you find the shedder skin four to seven days later ..


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

In extreme cases of stubborn shed or to treat dehydration I have soaked a snake for about 20 minutes and then I just wipe them down gently with a rough textured towel ... you just wrap it up in the towel and let it slither around inside ... when it's head pops out simply cover it up again ..

The skin all comes off nice and gently on the towel.


The easiest way I've found to ensure a perfect shed is to know your snake well .. as soon as they go into shed mode .. eyes glaze over / go blue and they fade in colour plus they disappear for a day or two.
I spray the viv well each day THEN as soon as the eyes clear and colour returns to normal you spray two or three times a day until you find the shedder skin four to seven days later ..


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Thanks. My problem is that my humidity is high already, and i did notice the hazy eyes and started bumping up the humidity even more... and still got a bad shed.


-Jason

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gdawgs56

Thanks. My problem is that my humidity is high already, and i did notice the hazy eyes and started bumping up the humidity even more... and still got a bad shed.


-Jason

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Poor shed usually suggests not enough humidity I thought .

What kind of hygrometer are you using ??



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Poor shed usually suggests not enough humidity I thought .

What kind of hygrometer are you using ??



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Yeah... it’s a digital hygrometer thermometer, and i confirmed the numbers with a second hygrometer.

Is it possible he had a bad shed just cuz of being in a new environment and not 100% settled?


-Jason