Need help updating my allelic list

I was going to update the allelic list but I have a few morphs I'm having issue finding information on.

Lucifer - is there anything that suggest this is not a a fire? I know its allelic, but what evidence do we have of it not just being a fire?
Thunder - What evidence of there of it not just being a vanilla?
Orange Belly - We all want to say its just a yellow belly, but given its ties to the ultra ivory/graphite type stuff, i wasn't going to dismiss it right away. is there any new info on this front or did everyone just forget about the ultra ivory/graphite? lol.
Coffee - where is there evidence of this being allelic with the BlkEL complex?
Mota - where is there evidence of this being allelic with the either BEL or BlkEL complex? I read conflicting reports and don't see evidence of either.
Brown back - where is there evidence of it being allelic with the 8 ball complex?
Ember - bought in the same store, on the same day, as the sulfur, is there anything to suggest its not just a sulfur?

I was just thinking the same thing about the ultra ivory. I'm interested if there is anything new with it as well.

I'd like to know if anyone ever figured out if Harlequin was a thing or not.

I haven't heard of anyone producing a super, but it's definitely morph, quite a few combos produced.

Mota is black eyed Lucy complex, not blue eyed. Super mota looks identical to super fire looks identical to fire mota. I'm out with family right now but I will see if I can track down some of my sources for this.

As far as I've seen, lucifer/sauce is equivalent to fire and thunder is equivalent to vanilla, they act and look pretty much the same in combos and in the single gene form.

Haven't seen enough about ember to really comment there.

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Originally Posted by Meerna

I'd like to know if anyone ever figured out if Harlequin was a thing or not.

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I still don't quite know what people see in supposed "harlequin" animals. They look normal to me, occasionally with areas of slightly aberrant pattern, which to me isn't out of the "normal" spectrum. The only thing I've seen that appears to be consistent in all harle's (whether low expression or not) is weird spotting or striping in the yellow dorsal. Still not jaw dropping or earth shattering, and I haven't been too impressed with combos either. Maybe I just haven't seen the right ones.

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Originally Posted by Trisnake

Mota is black eyed Lucy complex, not blue eyed. Super mota looks identical to super fire looks identical to fire mota. I'm out with family right now but I will see if I can track down some of my sources for this.

As far as I've seen, lucifer/sauce is equivalent to fire and thunder is equivalent to vanilla, they act and look pretty much the same in combos and in the single gene form.

Haven't seen enough about ember to really comment there.

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think im getting closer this might be where the confusion stems from.
ok so here i find BlkEL https://www.americanmadeexotics.com/mota-project.html
Here it is as a BEL https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ex-With-Combos
is it allelic with the BEL but makes BlkEL when bred together?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

think im getting closer this might be where the confusion stems from.
ok so here i find BlkEL https://www.americanmadeexotics.com/mota-project.html
Here it is as a BEL https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ex-With-Combos
is it allelic with the BEL but makes BlkEL when bred together?

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That's bizarre... Are there any mota combos with BlkEL complex animals?


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If you scroll down the page on that first link it shows supposed Mojave motas that are not BELs... very interesting


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