What is he... Cinny or B.P.?

[Lolo76]

I just got a "black pastel" from Skiploder, who originally got him from Robert Seib... he was sold as a black pastel, but we're both suspecting he's actually a cinnamon. I do plan to breed this beautiful boy, so it would be helpful to identify his morph. We know Robert Seib is a very reputable breeder, but it's possible this one even confused him!

Fyi - he weighs just under 800g @ almost 3 years old (finicky eater), and Skiploder said he was BLACK as a hatchling. I tried to take the photos in different lighting, but don't have the equipment for non-flash pictures... they're pretty close to how he looks in person, though. Here's Dave, and please vote on the poll above:

[Lolo76]

P.S. The lighter spots on his head are just tiny pieces of skin, since he shed earlier tonight...

[Sarin]

Looks like a Cinnamon to me.

[2kdime]

Cinnamon

[West Coast Jungle]

One difference between a cinny and a black pastel are the sqiggly markes in the pattern. Meaning the cinny just has the round dots(like a mojave) in the pattern and the Blacks have this sqiuggly marks surrounding the pattern. Yours looks alot like a cinny but he has some squiggly marks associated with the blacks. Then again the head looks more cinny but belly looks more like a black.

I'm leaning black but just not a great example of one.

[Bruce Whitehead]

I would say black from the markings, as already noted.

The black circles in the alien heads with the smudgy marks around them is a trait of black pastels.

Bruce

[Bruce Whitehead]

As is often said, contact the breeder and asked what pairing produced him...

... it there was no cinnie involved in the breeding then it cannot be a cinnie.

[angllady2]

Well, everything BUT the squiggles says cinny to me, and of course the Guide says the squiggles are black pastel.

However, if you scroll to the bottom of the cinny page in the Guide, there is a WC cinny with squiggles, so it could be anybody's guess.

I suggest contacting the breeder to see if he can tell you what pair this snake is from. Then you will know for sure, as Bruce mentioned.

Gale

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I have a female black pastel who is very light like yours (I know she is a black pastel since I produced her )

Here she is





So if you purchase yours as a black pastel it is very possible that it is indeed a black pastel even if not looking like most of them.

Their coloration varies.

[Skiploder]

Well, everything BUT the squiggles says cinny to me, and of course the Guide says the squiggles are black pastel.

However, if you scroll to the bottom of the cinny page in the Guide, there is a WC cinny with squiggles, so it could be anybody's guess.

I suggest contacting the breeder to see if he can tell you what pair this snake is from. Then you will know for sure, as Bruce mentioned.

Gale

That's a WC black pastel not a cinny in that pic.

The parents were "Ian G. Line" black pastels - whatever that means. I dug up the receipt. Now you all know for sure. I still think that, according to the guide (with the the exception of the squiggles) he looks like a cinnamon.

I am far from a BP expert. In fact this is the only one I ever owned.

I think it's comical that even the guide basically says that there is little to no difference other than the squiggles as the head.

Here's some more fuel for the fire:

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...cin_pastel.asp

If I'm reading this right, they are the SAME thing. Before someone sacks up and flames me, read the quote from Graziani.

..and Laura - here is a link to another Ian G. black pastel that looks just like ol' Dave the Wuss:

http://www.kingsnake.com/donpatterso...stel_ball.html