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!HELP! Unknown scale issue
Hello,
I am having an issue with my ball python but I'm having a hard time finding a reputable exotic vet in my area, so I'm reaching out to anyone that may be able to help. I was wondering if you've ever seen anything like this before, I'm having a hard time finding info online...(I am located near Guelph Ontario, but before anyone recommends Campus Estates, I have first hand experience with how little experience they actually have with reptiles).
About a month ago or so I noticed weird flaky brown spots on just the tips of a few belly scales of my ball. She was on a carpet substrate, and I thought maybe it might be the start of scale rot. So I applied regular (without painkillers) Polysporin to the belly for two days and it wasn't making a difference and since it was only a couple scales, I thought I'd keep an eye on it and hope her next shed would clear it out and stopped using the Polysporin. But then a week later, the top layer of all her scales started flaking off individually. I looked into it some more and apparently this happens when you use Polysporin on your snake, even though it's commonly suggested.
It's been about three weeks since she's eaten, but otherwise she's her usual self and fairly active. Her scales still have the same colour but they are still flaking off everywhere and it's been weeks. Her substrate is now just paper towel. Also her belly is really pink but only in some spots, and when I run my finger along her belly, it disappears and then comes back after a bit.
I don't know exactly how old she is, but I've had her for almost a year and the store I got her at said she was there for a bit, maybe like 5 months. Her temperature is about 90 on warm side, 75 on cool and humidity is around 60 on average (I have a temp gun and two separate hygrometers). She has a side tank heating pad that she can't get close to and an overhead heat lamp as well, so there's no way it could be a burn on her belly. Is there any way the Polysporin might still just be sitting on her and she just needs more water baths? What would be causing the redness, just irritation from the scales shedding so much? Should I start applying the Polysporin again even though it makes her scales come off, or leave it?
Please find the photos attached. The redness in her belly is a little darker than it shows up in photos, but it comes and goes depending on how I'm holding her or how she's moving (as you can see sometimes the very middle of her belly is red in some photos and sometimes it's not), so I am wondering if it's just her blood flow is more visible without her outer scale layers?? I know she's losing scales because of the Polysporin, as many people seemed to have a similar experience after using it... I did notice these tiny dark specs on her face that I don't remember seeing before. Is her scale flaking an issue, or should I start using the Polysporin again just in case and hope her scale flaking goes away with her next shed? I am going to try feeding her tomorrow as well, hopefully she eats. She also just shed a few months ago (her sheds usually come off in one piece) and is showing no other signs of shed.
Any ideas would be really appreciated, she is very special to me!
I really appreciate your time
Kyle
Please click this link for the photos (let me know if there are any issues viewing them):
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g7p8mobn7...yVz6m-4ma?dl=0
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STOP using Polysporin (or any other ointment with petroleum jelly -aka "Vaseline"- base such as Neosporin)- they're designed for humans & do cause scale issues in snakes, as you're seeing (the flaking- or what I call de-lamination).
Ointments like that (petroleum jelly based) are easily smeared onto substrate & when the snake crawls forward, it gets re-applied all or most of the way down. That "may" be what's causing the irritation. They also don't wash out easily, so you might need to replace that carpet. And wash any other furnishings that might have ointment residue.
***For topical infections, the best idea would be Vetericyn (the brand name- look for reptile specific) ointment- it's water-based so it won't harm their scales. You can also use diluted* Betadine (aka "povidone-iodine") *diluted to look like weak tea.
What do you clean her enclosure with? Any other chemicals she might be getting exposed to? Anything on your hands, when you handle her or if she's allowed to crawl around outside her home?
You mentioned she had been kept on carpet- how did you clean it? It's possible that's the source of infection or irritation, especially if not cleaned fully & disinfected (!) often enough. I do use "indoor-outdoor" carpet for some snakes, with no problems ever, but just trying to think of all possibilities- and your carpet may be different (chemically & texture-wise) than what I use here anyway.
For the time being, I'd keep her on layered white paper towels, even though it won't help humidity at all. Sometimes other humidity-holding substrates that are too damp can also cause skin problems, since bacteria loves the humid warmth we provide for our snakes.
***Some BPs do show some pink on their ventral side when pre-shed. If she eats for you & seems fine otherwise, you might wait a while to see if this might be a shed cycle, & that her skin was just also aggravated by the Polysporin you've been using.
If this continues, or she seems truly sick, I do recommend that you take her to see a qualified herp vet, as belly redness can sometimes indicate septicemia (a bacterial infection in the bloodstream of a snake) ASSUMING you're correct that this cannot be a "burn" from her laying on something that's excessively warm (90*+) for too long. I'm not trying to stress you out- just saying that online advice cannot (& SHOULD NOT) replace a good vet's diagnosis.
Let us know how it goes, okay?
Last edited by Bogertophis; 04-16-2022 at 03:31 PM.
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
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Registered User
Re: !HELP! Unknown scale issue
Thanks so much! When I first used the Polysporin (I only used a small amount once for two days), I took everything out of the enclosure and wiped it down with vinegar or this reptile tank disinfectant specifically for reptiles. I wiped it all down, let it totally air out, and then replaced everything. I threw the carpet out and put paper towel down. Whenever her carpet got dirty in the past, I would straight up throw it out and replace it instead of trying to clean it over and over. I don't handle her without washing my hands and then also using hand sanitizer and letting it dry before picking her up. It's more likely that a few of her scales got small damage somehow and I mistook it for the very beginning of scale rot, having never seen it before, and then the Poly caused more issues with the flaking. She isn't eating tho, it's been three weeks and she usually eats every week and a half, so I guess that technically means she's only missed one feeding. I wonder if the flaking is confusing her and making her think she's going into shed mode and ruining her appetite? I guess at this point my main concern is the flaking having been going on for so long, her missing too many meals, and the red line down her belly.
Maybe I will wash everything again in case there is any leftover Polysporin that keeps getting reapplied to her, but I have also been told by a local breeder that I won't see improvement on her scales until she sheds as that's the only time they heal themselves. But also, why there's that random red line down the middle of her belly that comes and goes, if a burn isn't possible? The redness isn't spreading or getting worse... It seems like it's a burn but it's just not possible for her to have received a burn. So mysterious! The only thing I can think of is that one of her climbing/resting spots sits fairly close to the top of her screen where her heat lamp is, about three inches from the screen... But whenever I check that highest point with my temp gun it reads 86, usually. That's what her belly would be against. She also rarely ever its up there... She'll climb around on it when she's active, but she's always moving. She uses her hidey on the warm side of the tank 95% of the time, which reads 82 or so. I wonder if losing the top layer of her scales made her more susceptible to a burn?? If she did somehow get a burn, what would be the best way to treat that?
I will definitely keep you posted. I def want to take her to a vet, but like I said, they seem to do more harm than good around here, so I am just hoping someone's come across this kind of thing before.
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Your local breeder is correct- you WILL need to wait for her to shed, maybe more than once, for the "de-laminated" flaky scales to improve.
It's also possible (maybe even likely) that all the attention & handling (cleaning) is what's actually hurting her appetite. BPs are shy snakes- being fussed over distracts them from eating.
Snakes can somehow feel a shed coming (we can often tell because they typically refuse to eat), & because of all the "flaky scales" she may be going into a shed sooner than she otherwise would have- so yes, maybe that's why she's not eating. 3 weeks isn't a long time, by the way. Whether it's a small injury or a large one, shedding is how a snake's body makes repairs.
Note, I'm not saying it can't be a burn- you said that wasn't possible- so do keep checking & make sure that or other irritations from her home aren't the problem. Remember that BPs are more active after dark- it's likely you don't see what all she does at night after you're asleep. Too bad they can't talk, eh?
IF she has a burn, you SHOULD see a vet, as burns are serious due to pain & possible infection. Topically, the best care is Silvadene cream (Silver sulfadiazine), which may or may not require a prescription to purchase.
"This medication is used with other treatments to help prevent and treat wound infections in patients with serious burns. Silver sulfadiazine works by stopping the growth of bacteria that may infect an open wound."
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
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Hydrogel AG is available in Canada without a prescription. It contains silver sulfadiazine.
"Something Clever"
1.0 Paradox Albino KSB - Spotticus
0.1 Dutch Rabbit - Wendy
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The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Spicey For This Useful Post:
Armiyana (04-16-2022),Bogertophis (04-16-2022),Snakeky (04-16-2022)
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Bogertophis hot the nail on the head with this one.
Anecdotal from me.... One of my snakes (normal phase as well, not a pale snake by any means) will turn almost salmon pink on his belly when he's getting ready to shed. In more recent sheds he'll even develop little 'freckles' of red. If it was any other snake, I would have panicked and thought septicemia, but sometimes it's just a matter of knowing your pet as well as you can
Anyway...do keep looking for a qualified vet just in case! That way if for any reason this worsens..
Or if something else happens, you know where you're calling/going. Keep an eye out for any type of blister looking sores or drainage, just in case something did happen to injure the belly.
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Bogertophis (04-16-2022),Snakeky (04-17-2022)
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Registered User
Update
Hey everyone,
Thanks again for all the feedback. Just wanted to give an update since I last posted. So, it had been about six weeks and she hadn't eaten. She still hadn't shed since February, and her scales were still flaking everywhere. At this point I noticed her skin starting to feel wrinkly and loose and her scales dulling. I knew this could also just be an indication that she might be shedding, but in case it was dehydration, I just gave her daily soaks in her water for about fifteen minutes or so, which she seemed to really enjoy. Then I noticed her eyes went foggy and her belly was more pink so I thought great, she is going to finally shed... I left her alone for a few days and then her eyes went back to normal and no shed (I only later found out this is whats supposed to happen usually), so I upped her humidity a bit and gave her more soaks and then she finally shed, which helped a lot of the scale flaking issues, it's pretty much gone now. And the next day she hungrily ate a small rat (went down in her food size to ease her back into eating), and then a few days ago I fed her a second medium rat. So, all seems to be back to normal! Phew.
You can bet I def cried the first time she ate in six weeks lol. I was talking to some reptile expert overseas and he told me to just give up on her and that she's wasting away... But so far what I've learned about snakes, or at least my snake, is that instinct and intuition always come into play and that no one knows better about what your snake needs than your snake itself.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Snakeky For This Useful Post:
Bogertophis (05-27-2022),Luvyna (05-27-2022)
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Thanks for the update and so glad that you didn't give up on your BP! Hope she continues to do better from here on out.
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Re: Update
Originally Posted by Snakeky
Hey everyone,
Thanks again for all the feedback. Just wanted to give an update since I last posted. So, it had been about six weeks and she hadn't eaten. She still hadn't shed since February, and her scales were still flaking everywhere. At this point I noticed her skin starting to feel wrinkly and loose and her scales dulling. I knew this could also just be an indication that she might be shedding, but in case it was dehydration, I just gave her daily soaks in her water for about fifteen minutes or so, which she seemed to really enjoy. Then I noticed her eyes went foggy and her belly was more pink so I thought great, she is going to finally shed... I left her alone for a few days and then her eyes went back to normal and no shed (I only later found out this is whats supposed to happen usually), so I upped her humidity a bit and gave her more soaks and then she finally shed, which helped a lot of the scale flaking issues, it's pretty much gone now. And the next day she hungrily ate a small rat (went down in her food size to ease her back into eating), and then a few days ago I fed her a second medium rat. So, all seems to be back to normal! Phew.
You can bet I def cried the first time she ate in six weeks lol. I was talking to some reptile expert overseas and he told me to just give up on her and that she's wasting away... But so far what I've learned about snakes, or at least my snake, is that instinct and intuition always come into play and that no one knows better about what your snake needs than your snake itself.
You really have to be patient when you keep snakes, especially ball pythons & other challenging species. I'm so happy for your good news! I know how it feels, believe me.
Six weeks seems much longer to us, waiting, than it does for a snake that's making us wait. Shedding (especially the "going back to clear part") sure confuses a great many new snake-keepers.
But that's how we all learned- with experience & patience. Sounds like she's on the right track now, but any time you want to talk over these confusing issues, that's why were here. Most of us remember the frustration of similar questions- believe me. I'm glad you didn't listen to that so-called expert that told you to give up on her- She's glad too...
The more snakes you know, or the longer you keep them, the easier it gets to read their issues.
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
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