WLP getting tested for Inclusion body disease.

[Awesomethepossum]

Bear in mind most exotic vets don't deal with WC critters often, so they're looking for the contagious diseases most prevalent in CB populations. Folks who regularly deal with WC usually treat for parasites themselves instead of going to the vet as wormers are available over the counter.

This has been a long learning process for sure...

I should have assumed to treat him after I brought him home, or when this started going down-hill. Wild caught snakes are uncharted territory for me, definitely nothing I'll be pursuing in the future either. I have a lot to learn.
I appreciate both of you continuing to give advice and feedback along the way with this. Deciding on how to go about this has been tough, so it's good to hear from others that have experiences with these types of things.

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[Bogertophis]

He still has that fuzzy in him, which is good. He's obviously lean/thin, but still rounded, no dullness in appearance. But I also know how quickly things can change. I'd like to see if I can get another meal in him, assuming he keeps this one down

I don't think I've ever seen mucous in his stool. I know it could be easy to confuse a mostly digested meal from feces sometimes too....is that what you had in mind?

Thats essentially the issue for me with the vet.....the jumping to scary conclusions, and grim delivery of it ('all other options have been exhausted' type vibe). That's been a heavy contributer to my stress.

I had told myself I wouldn't get another WC snake. I didn't than on it either...but I saw him at an expo and went with it. I've never seen them at expos around here before.

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I'm so glad he's keeping the fuzzy down.

Not exactly. Regurges usually have some mucus coating them, as can feces from a sick snake. In the link for crypto that I provided in post #2, the article mentions that often mucoid diarrhea is noted in snakes suffering from crypto, due to the damage done to the digestive tract- & you might also see a tinge of blood too. So I'm glad that so far, you're not seeing that either.

As far as your vet's grim prognosis, perhaps it's just how she sees things ("glass half empty" vs. "glass half full")- plenty of doctors in all fields are a bit short on "bedside manners" & optimism.

I generally don't like to second-guess what vet's do- after all, we're paying them for their training & expertise- but unfortunately, sometimes you have to ask, & as their paying customer, we have a right to know what's going on with our pet, especially if something doesn't quite make sense, or isn't working.

W/C snakes aren't always a disaster, depending on where they're from, but W/C imports OFTEN are. And any W/C snakes that have been commercially shipped are very stressed also.

"Impulse buys" (or impulse-acquisitions/adoptions)- I think we've all been there...

Anyway, don't give up- It's not proven to be crypto & you still might 'win' this battle. Think positive!!!

[Bogertophis]

Hey, how's he doing?

[Awesomethepossum]

Hey, how's he doing?

Sorry for the delayed response. I was actually meaning to give an update the other day but got distracted with work and miscellaneous life stuff. But I think a have a good amount to update with at this point

He's eaten 3 times for me since that refurg on 2/24 without issue.

Two live mouse fuzzies dusted in Nutribac, spread a week apart (can only special order them once a week), then on the 30th I sized it up and gave him a live mouse hopper, also dusted.

Worth noting, I started him on Panacur on 3/20, and since it's been 2 weeks, he got his second dose today.

Since it started, he's been out and about more. Meaning, he isn't just sitting under his hide being lethargic, he's been renovating his enclosure. Nothing frantic, just active at night. And I've seen him out sleeping in the open during the day as well.

I've also been doing thorough cleanings of his tub, water dish, and hide every 3 days at least, or whenever he uses the bathroom

His stool has been watery (started before the Panacur) but no blood and only a small amounts were present in prominently clear fluid. It does smell a bit, which started after the panacur. Today, the stool was solid, not watery at all. But only a small amount. Urates were white

He weighs the same as he did 2 weeks ago (150g). I can't complain, considering he's been eating small, spaced out meals. But, maybe I can increase the frequency now and put more focus on weight gain, since he hasn't had a regurg.

For this last live mouse hopper, his enthusiasm was refreshing and he didn't play any games about it. No defensive striking, or dodginess. He sucked it down. Haven't seen any abdominal swelling at all either




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[Bogertophis]

I am thrilled to hear that things are going better for you & this beautiful snake- Maybe the first round of Panacur just didn't quite get the job done & this is just all he needs? Hang in there- snakes manage to survive a great deal in the wild, & I think the same can apply in captivity as long as we don't bombard their delicate bodies with "too many remedies" at once.

I asked about him a few days back when I noticed you were on the forum- sometimes "too busy" can't be helped.

[Awesomethepossum]

I'm hoping this is gets it done. If his appetite and everything becomes solid again, I do worry about another "rebound". Just because of this poor guy's history of showing positive improvement, then going downhill again

Not sure if it would be too soon to offer food today. His basking temps are boosted up a few degrees and he's out and about. Not sure if that's because of the dewormer last night or if he's hungry. I guess there's only one way to find out.

To be safe, a 3rd dose in another 2 weeks seems appropriate. After that, I'll take a fecal in to the vet

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[Bogertophis]

I'm hoping this is gets it done. If his appetite and everything becomes solid again, I do worry about another "rebound". Just because of this poor guy's history of showing positive improvement, then going downhill again

Not sure if it would be too soon to offer food today. His basking temps are boosted up a few degrees and he's out and about. Not sure if that's because of the dewormer last night or if he's hungry. I guess there's only one way to find out.

To be safe, a 3rd dose in another 2 weeks seems appropriate. After that, I'll take a fecal in to the vet

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To the best of my knowledge, the medication sort of stimulates (irritates) the stomach, which feels like hunger to the snake. I'm sure he needs the nutrition too, but hopefully by going a bit slow, he'll keep recovering & not "back-sliding". Fingers crossed here.

[Awesomethepossum]

Update:

I gave Nicodemus his 3rd dose of Panacur last night. He was also in shed, but was struggling, so I had to switch him over to substrate. It's been hard keeping the humidity up in his tub and he was starting to look a bit dehydrated as well. I'm conflicted on whether I should switch him back off or not, now that he's done shedding.

He had a bowel movement with the shed, but it was hard to tell if there were worms in it, or if it was just some mucus. I'll need to touch base with the vet (I haven't spoken to them since the crypto talk) and get a fecal done.

I'm really hoping these three doses of Panacur will be enough to clean him out.

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[Bogertophis]

I've never tried it but I suppose you could give him a "bed" of damp sponges instead of substrate.

[Awesomethepossum]

Super delayed update. It's been ages since I posted on here and I wasnt sure if i was going to.. But, wanted to touch base if anyone was still curious.

My guy stopped having any issues since I last posted here earlier this year about the concerns for IBD or crypto. No diarrhea, weight loss, no regurgitations. Appetite was good, no weight loss, great body condition. Because of this, and because other separate, significant issues came up (financial, familial, personal health, another pet needed multiple surgeries) I didn't get back in touch with his vet. Which I don't feel great about, but here we are.

Then, over the past month, he started having foul-smelling, liquid diarrhea. So I booked an appointment a couple of weeks out for today.

I took him into a different vet office. I was really stressed about this, because I never got back in touch with that previous vet office, and this new one had recieved the last records about the talk of crypto, and his deteriorating health at the time, and I could tell they had feelings about this. I believe the offices work closely together. They did surgery on one of my ampbibians and were incredible, so I told them I just wanted their opinion as well.

They told me after taking him back for the exam, when they took him out to do the exam, they were confused because he's in perfect condition, he appeared bright, healthy, was alert, etc. But then he exploded diarrhea all over them.

The specialist collected all of it, said he had an abundance of protozoans and what appeared to be roundworms. I asked about crypto, and the exotics specialist said that it isn't ruled out, but also isn't setting off alarm bells for her because of his healthy physical condition, considering his symptom history and how long I've had him. She said that the other snakes that she's examinded that had it were wasting away. She said my guy looked perfect.

She said since he's been treated by the other vet already for worms, he had to have picked this stuff up another way after the fact? I was a bit confused by that.

So for now, they're sending out a fecal OP, a culture, and a gram stain.

She said the fecal results will likely be back by tomorrow, the cultures will take 1-2 weeks.

His couse of meds involve:
-Metronidazole (.06ml, oral) repeated every 48 hours. 4 doses total.
-Oxfendazole (.17ml, oral). One dose today, then again in 14 days.

She also advised I steam clean everything. I just ordered one, and I'm already feeling better having taken him into see them.

It's been a bit of a rollercoaster, but wanted to give that update.

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