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Re: Looking for advice from more experienced keepers
Originally Posted by Bogertophis
And we're not actually seeing this snake- she might simply be over-fed? (unintentionally), OR getting old, or other health issue for which a vet check is in order.
Very true. We only feed her once a week. She maybe getting old. She's one of our older animals.
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Re: Looking for advice from more experienced keepers
Originally Posted by Neko_snake
Very true. We only feed her once a week. She maybe getting old. She's one of our older animals.
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BINGO! An adult corn snake should be fed about every 10 days (to 14 days). Too much food for a mature corn snake!
How long is she? (approximately) And what size rodents (& what kind) are you feeding her? She'd do fine on average sized adult mice only and only ONE per meal- NOT jumbo mice, ever. OK? (large aka jumbo mice are way too fatty- they're old breeders, not good for most snakes) No wonder she's not eating...
Last edited by Bogertophis; 08-29-2021 at 08:18 PM.
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bogertophis For This Useful Post:
dakski (08-29-2021),Neko_snake (08-29-2021)
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Re: Looking for advice from more experienced keepers
Originally Posted by Bogertophis
BINGO! An adult corn snake should be fed about every 10 days (to 14 days). Too much food for a mature corn snake!
This is exactly why I asked on here. So I probably should suggest a different feeding schedule for her. Maybe every 2 weeks. That makes me feel better since then with the 3 weeks off food she's technically only missed one meal. While I'm asking, what is the typical prey size for a corn snake? We fed her an adult mouse and I'm just making sure that's the correct size.
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It's good that she "missed a meal"- in fact, if she missed several it would still be fine. She's apparently been overfed for quite some time- corn & other rat snakes are generally enthusiastic eaters, but you're not doing them any favors with excessive food- they can die from "fatty liver disease".
The interval between meals should be gradually lengthened* from once a week as hatchlings. (*starting when they're about 4-6 mos. old, and then young adults should be fed about every 10 days- and older snakes, every 2 weeks, or so (when really elderly, every 3 weeks).
I wouldn't offer her any food for at least 2 weeks now, or until she looks & acts hungry, whichever takes longer. It would help if you can post a picture of her- not coiled up- so I can get a sense of her body weight (proportions). Her approx. length would help too. If she's not hungry for a while, that's good, & that's normal. She doesn't need the food- & she's been trying to tell you for a while, it sounds like. Re-read post #12. Make sure your co-workers understand this too- I know it's hard to be the new employee who has to let others know they've been on the wrong path, but the behavior of this snake proves it. I'd even feed her small adult mice for a while too, but never (!) large/"jumbo" mice.
IF her appetite doesn't resume in a couple weeks, or there's any other symptoms of illness, let us know? But hopefully this is what will "fix" her. You shouldn't need "tricks to get her to eat"- just wait until she's actually hungry & needs food, & don't over-do it.
And yes, it would be good if she was not fed more often than every 2 weeks for a while- & like I said, only then IF she acts hungry (chasing motion). Don't "talk her into eating" if she isn't actually hungry. She could probably stand to lose a little weight. Corn snakes are supposed to be fairly slender, not built like a BP.
Last edited by Bogertophis; 08-29-2021 at 08:56 PM.
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
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Re: Looking for advice from more experienced keepers
Originally Posted by Bogertophis
It's good that she "missed a meal"- in fact, if she missed several it would still be fine. She's apparently been overfed for quite some time- corn & other rat snakes are generally enthusiastic eaters, but you're not doing them any favors with excessive food- they can die from "fatty liver disease".
The interval between meals should be gradually lengthened* from once a week as hatchlings. (*starting when they're about 4-6 mos. old, and then young adults should be fed about every 10 days- and older snakes, every 2 weeks, or so (when really elderly, every 3 weeks).
I wouldn't offer her any food for at least 2 weeks now, or until she looks & acts hungry, whichever takes longer. It would help if you can post a picture of her- not coiled up- so I can get a sense of her body weight (proportions). Her approx. length would help too. If she's not hungry for a while, that's good, & that's normal. She doesn't need the food- & she's been trying to tell you for a while, it sounds like. Re-read post #12. Make sure your co-workers understand this too- I know it's hard to be the new employee who has to let others know they've been on the wrong path, but the behavior of this snake proves it. I'd even feed her small adult mice for a while too, but never (!) large/"jumbo" mice.
IF her appetite doesn't resume in a couple weeks, or there's any other symptoms of illness, let us know? But hopefully this is what will "fix" her. You shouldn't need "tricks to get her to eat"- just wait until she's actually hungry & needs food, & don't over-do it.
I'll definitely try to suggest and hopefully they will understand. We do feed her one adult mouse so at least we have that proportion right. I will definitely be keeping in touch. I love this form so much. You guys are a great wealth of knowledge. I like that you gave me a game plan in how to actually fix our care. The other staff probably don't even have an idea that we've overfed her and I haven't taken care of a corn snake so I didn't know either.
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I've been keeping & also breeding some corn snakes for literally decades. (I currently have 5 corns, & 11 other rat snakes too.) I wonder where they got the idea to feed an adult colubrid snake every week? Maybe because they handle her for education, they've been trying to be sure she's "full" & won't bite or scare anyone- just my guess? But if so, that's misguided. I've done many programs with my snakes- even some where they meet (& are handled by) "the public" with no issues ever, & fyi, my snakes are hungry (due to be fed) when I take them. You just read that correctly, lol- I want them "empty" so they don't poo on me or anyone in public/programs. And I've never had any snake of mine bite me or anyone this way- they "change gears" quite well, they understand they're not being fed once I've picked them up. Even if they were hungrily chasing my motion thru the glass right before I took them out.
I have some very large yellow/Florida rat snakes with monstrous appetites to match their size, & one time I took 2 of them to the local library for a kid's program, & thought it might be interesting for the kids to watch them eat. So I took 2 thawed mice with me in a container, & after I handled the snakes a while, I put them each in their travel enclosure & offered them a meal, thinking surely they'd pounce- since I knew they were hungry. They actually hesitated & finally "accepted" the prey, but they were far less than eager. Then I understood- they were in "handling mode".
You might want to have them read this thread? Good luck.
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
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Re: Looking for advice from more experienced keepers
Originally Posted by Bogertophis
I've been keeping & also breeding some corn snakes for literally decades. (I currently have 5 corns, & 11 other rat snakes too.) I wonder where they got the idea to feed an adult colubrid snake every week? Maybe because they handle her for education, they've been trying to be sure she's "full" & won't bite or scare anyone- just my guess? But if so, that's misguided. I've done many programs with my snakes- even some where they meet (& are handled by) "the public" with no issues ever, & fyi, my snakes are hungry (due to be fed) when I take them. You just read that correctly, lol- I want them "empty" so they don't poo on me or anyone in public/programs. And I've never had any snake of mine bite me or anyone this way- they "change gears" quite well, they understand they're not being fed once I've picked them up. Even if they were hungrily chasing my motion thru the glass right before I took them out.
I have some very large yellow/Florida rat snakes with monstrous appetites to match their size, & one time I took 2 of them to the local library for a kid's program, & thought it might be interesting for the kids to watch them eat. So I took 2 thawed mice with me in a container, & after I handled the snakes a while, I put them each in their travel enclosure & offered them a meal, thinking surely they'd pounce- since I knew they were hungry. They actually hesitated & finally "accepted" the prey, but they were far less than eager. Then I understood- they were in "handling mode".
You might want to have them read this thread? Good luck.
I'm not sure where they got the information. I definitely appreciate someone as knowledgeable as yourself setting me in the right direction. I'm definitely the new person at work so it might take some convincing but I'm determined to give our animals the best care possible. It's so interesting how your snakes behaved. Another question, sorry about asking all the questions lol, do you typically feed your snakes in their enclosures or in a separate bin? My coworkers were debating that as well. My opinion is you're just adding stress that you don't need to add if you're feeding in a bin.
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My snakes are ALWAYS fed where they live, & no, I'm not covered with bite-scars, lol.
Side bins (1) add stress, (2) put shy feeders OFF eating at all, (3) don't help at all, & (4) make it MORE likely you'll get bit, either handling them before or after, when they're still in "feed mode".
Corn snakes act voracious & they are, but the way to tell a hungry corn snake that YOU are not "dinner" is first, blow air across your hand thru the screen so they get your scent. Most will back up right then. Understand that they chase "motion" but don't identify things visually- they need more cues (scent &/or touch). You can also use a quick mist of cool water to their face to "change their channel" quickly. (keep a spray bottle on hand for this, & also for misting them when in shed) I'm not talking about a fire hose or water-blaster- just a spritz- and not only won't it hurt them, many snakes will drink right from the spray when they're thirsty. Remember they get rained on in nature too.
Last edited by Bogertophis; 08-29-2021 at 09:28 PM.
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
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The Following User Says Thank You to Bogertophis For This Useful Post:
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Re: Looking for advice from more experienced keepers
It sounds like her environment is stable, and she’s in capable hands, but I agree that a 10-14 day feeding schedule would be better. My adult colubrids eat every 12-14 days. I can see why she’d take a break from eating weekly. A month off food is no big deal for a healthy snake. Adult mice are fine but if she’ll take them she could also eat small chicks, rats, African soft furs, or quail. Nothing wrong with a diverse diet. Most of my snakes eat 2-3 different types of prey.
3.0 Carpet Pythons, 1.1 Bullsnakes
1.0 Olive Python 1.0 Scrub Python,
1.0 BI, 0.1 BCO
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Re: Looking for advice from more experienced keepers
Originally Posted by Bogertophis
My snakes are ALWAYS fed where they live, & no, I'm not covered with bite-scars, lol.
Side bins (1) add stress, (2) put shy feeders OFF eating at all, (3) don't help at all, & (4) make it MORE likely you'll get bit, either handling them before or after, when they're still in "feed mode".
Corn snakes act voracious & they are, but the way to tell a hungry corn snake that YOU are not "dinner" is first, blow air across your hand thru the screen so they get your scent. Most will back up right then. Understand that they chase "motion" but don't identify things visually- they need more cues (scent &/or touch). You can also use a quick mist of cool water to their face to "change their channel" quickly. (keep a spray bottle on hand for this, & also for misting them when in shed) I'm not talking about a fire hose or water-blaster- just a spritz- and not only won't it hurt them, many snakes will drink right from the spray when they're thirsty. Remember they get rained on in nature too.
Originally Posted by Bogertophis
My snakes are ALWAYS fed where they live, & no, I'm not covered with bite-scars, lol.
Side bins (1) add stress, (2) put shy feeders OFF eating at all, (3) don't help at all, & (4) make it MORE likely you'll get bit, either handling them before or after, when they're still in "feed mode".
Corn snakes act voracious & they are, but the way to tell a hungry corn snake that YOU are not "dinner" is first, blow air across your hand thru the screen so they get your scent. Most will back up right then. Understand that they chase "motion" but don't identify things visually- they need more cues (scent &/or touch). You can also use a quick mist of cool water to their face to "change their channel" quickly. (keep a spray bottle on hand for this, & also for misting them when in shed) I'm not talking about a fire hose or water-blaster- just a spritz- and not only won't it hurt them, many snakes will drink right from the spray when they're thirsty. Remember they get rained on in nature too.
Thank you. Glad through my own research I came to the same conclusion that someone who's been doing this for decades has. That's exactly what I'm doing with my ball python, well no handling as we haven't gotten 3 feeds yet, but letting him get used to my scent and not thinking every time the enclosure opens he's getting fed. I might just be checking his hot spot temperature.
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