Two dragons, same age, DRASTICALLY different sizes and growth. Help!!

[rairose]

My bearded dragons are about 7 months old. One is about 13" long (head to tip of tail), very active and eats plenty. The other is only about 5" long (head to tip of tail), eats a little each day, poops regularly, but isn't very active. He often sits on the ground in the same spot for hours at a time while the larger one walks around and climbs the stick, adjusting his position in the tank frequently. They have both been in the same habitat since birth, been eating the same foods, getting water and veggies, are in a tank of about 93-105 in the basking area and 85-90 in the other end of the tank, and getting calcium every other day. They have a power sun light/heat emitter which provides UVB. They also have a 24-hour red light which keeps their tank warm when the power sun goes off at night. Why is one growing normally and the other is still so small?

I'm so worried about my little guy. I don't know what's wrong or why he's not growing like the bigger one.

[KatStoverReptiles]

Dragons shouldn't be housed together. It's likely that the larger one is bullying the smaller one.

I also don't know that the red light is necessary, as I know they can handle some temperature drop at night.

Please review this caresheet: http://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/caresheet/ it might be of some help

[rairose]

Hi Kat,

Thanks for your response. I don't think there is any bullying going on. They often sleep together, eat at the food bowl together, etc. If anything, the little one bullies the big one - the little guy, Jimmy, is always climbing on top of the bigger one, using him as a step stool, etc. The larger one, Timmy, is old enough for us to tell he is a male. However, the little one, Jimmy (or Jimmette) is still unidentifiable by sex. I know that adult males will often fight one another, but they are not to that stage yet and are perfectly peaceful together.

Also, because the tank is very deep, without the red light on at night, the tank can drop to below sixty and will not go above 75 during the day. (The tank used to be a fish aquarium).

Any other ideas on why the size difference is occurring?

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

I would separate them very soon or you will most likely come home one day and be unable to find Jimmy. They are cannibalistic if the size difference is too great (which yours is) and I know it seems like they are good friends but that's only until Timmy gets hungry.

Keeping multiple female dragons together is fine but only if you have plenty of space (tons!) and they are all relatively the same size.

Kat is right about the bullying. It may not be obvious, just the bigger one gets the lions share of the food and the size difference and the amount of food he takes grows as he does. This necessarily restricts the growth rate of the other one. If it is not bullying (which it most likely is), your dragon is sick and I would have a stool sample done to check for pinworms and coccadia.

[purplemuffin]

"snuggling" is often actually a sign of bullying. They are competing for areas of the enclosure that have the heating they want. One will often 'dominate' another by lying on top of them, causing extreme stress. The larger one simply being there without bullying could be stressing the little one out unbearably already simply because he's so much bigger!

[aldebono]

I too would say that the smaller is getting bullied. Separate and you may see a difference.

I too kept my baby beardies together and experienced exactly the same thing. Slow growth, small size, little appetite, less movement. No visual aggression.

Our larger one did turn out to be male and the smaller one female. She was MUCH smaller than he was for a very long time. She has caught up and is a normal size now.

So, speaking from experience. Separate now and see if that helps. They will have to be separated eventually anyway since you have one male.

[Crazy4Herps]

When I read the title of this my first thought was whether you are housing them together. While beardies may seem to get along, they are extremely territorial animals and housing multiple together for significant amounts of time almost always leads to health issues in one.

Your husbandry sounds like it's spot on. And if they're on the same diet and kept under the same conditions, there is no reason that only one of them would develop a health issue. In all my years of perusing forums and conversing with beardie owners, stunted growth is a common concern and the cause is almost exclusively bullying from another beardie (that or no UVB, which does not sound like the issue in your situation).

They may seem to get along, but we have to remember that their interactions are drastically different than those of mammals. Aggression can be extremely difficult to spot as it often doesn't involve confrontation. As has been said, snuggling, often referred to as stacking, is a territorial beardie's way of letting another beardie know that they are not welcome. And, as the smaller beardie has no way of escaping, in this situation it becomes your responsibility to step in and separate them.

[rairose]

Oh no! Ok, thank you SO much for all the responses. I greatly appreciate it, everybody.
I will separate them immediately.

Another question, though:
Timmy is a boy. So if Jimmy ends up being a Jimmette, can I house them together? Can a male and female live together in the same enclosure?

[Crazy4Herps]

Oh no! Ok, thank you SO much for all the responses. I greatly appreciate it, everybody.
I will separate them immediately.

Another question, though:
Timmy is a boy. So if Jimmy ends up being a Jimmette, can I house them together? Can a male and female live together in the same enclosure?

Wonderful!

Male beardies are aggressive with females as well. The only time males and females should be housed together would be for short periods of time for breeding purposes, and even then it is often detrimental to the female. In the instances that I have heard of beardies successfully being housed together (very rare and not recommended) is with multiple females. The guys just tend to be jerks. (Which is not to say males are less lovable! My beardie was a complete mommy's boy, but whenever he caught sight of any of my other animals he would go nuts!)

[purplemuffin]

I would worry about stress and breeding--if they ever did choose to mate, that's a lot of babies to feed and rehome! Not to mention the stress on the girl from constant mating and harrassment from the male when they become 'of age'

I have seen people do it..In large enclosures..with specific animals. It's not like you can say "Male and female pairs do well", but "Experienced keepers have found rare groups or pairs that seem comfortable in each others presence", and they are always ready to intervene if that changes(which it sometimes does, animals fine for 5 years can sometimes decide to be not-so-friendly anymore)

I watched my friends bearded dragon get so worked up over seeing the female across the room he attacked everything in sight(including his owner's shoe, which was pretty dang cute to be honest. Like a puppy.) But if he could have gotten to her, he might have done some damage. As he hit maturity he got quite a bit of gusto.

It just seems to be easier for everyone involved if they are separate, at least until you have a lot of experience. Not to mention--if one gets sick, you don't have to deal with the risk of them both getting sick!