UPDATE: S373 Python Ban

[Hypnotic Exotic]

Does this mean what I think it means? Has the bill just been concentrated to the giant 9?? Are BP's off the list?

I don't mean to call you out but I'm getting a bit tired of ball breeders only concerned that their species aren't included. I don't own any of these species but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop fighting it now. The boa constrictor inclusion is very closely linked to ball pythons in the pet trade. Their inclusion hits very close to home. If we do not fight for our fellow giant constrictor keepers, they won't be there for us when HSUS turns on our species. And believe me, they will.

[AaronP]

someone explain to me how any of these are dangerous to the habitat in the top 70% of the usa. where i gets to cold for them to survive past fall?

Same thing I said in another thread, it's not a US problem, it's a Florida Everglade problem, a very small piece of the American landscape with an extremely unique environment...

[Russ Lawson]

I guess I'm really behind the times... Got lots of questions...

When did Retics get lumped into the genus Broghammeras?

When did Anacondas get split up into their own species rather then all being subspcies of Eunectes murinus?

When did African Rock pythons become two completely different species rather then two supspecies of Python sebae?

How widely accepted are these re-classifications amongst the majority of taxonomists?

What would happen if some taxonomist got a wild hair and decided that different populations of retics were really members of several closely related genus' and reclassified them under new taxa? Would certain populations then become legal again?

I think very few of these changes have actually been widely accepted by taxonomists. It's likely the USGS report only got its taxa information from a limited number of sources, likely the newest ones they could find, which aren't necessarily widely accepted. This list was basically taken directly from that report - in spite of the fact that all of these politicians have been informed that the report is biased, unscientific, and extremely poor basis for any legislation.

As far as I'm concerned, retics are still genus Python, and southern Afrocks are still Python sebae natalensis. I am not well-enough informed on anacondas to say any different about being the same species or subspecies. Actually I've yet to even see a photograph of a De Schauensee's or Bolivian anaconda, and know of none in the entire US.

[Denial]

I think very few of these changes have actually been widely accepted by taxonomists. It's likely the USGS report only got its taxa information from a limited number of sources, likely the newest ones they could find, which aren't necessarily widely accepted. This list was basically taken directly from that report - in spite of the fact that all of these politicians have been informed that the report is biased, unscientific, and extremely poor basis for any legislation.

As far as I'm concerned, retics are still genus Python, and southern Afrocks are still Python sebae natalensis. I am not well-enough informed on anacondas to say any different about being the same species or subspecies. Actually I've yet to even see a photograph of a De Schauensee's or Bolivian anaconda, and know of none in the entire US.

I have pictures of them but I have looked for them for four years and have been told numerous times they are not in our country. If for some reason there are one or two in our country they are in a zoo somewhere they are not in our pet trade

[WingedWolfPsion]

Us ball breeders are concerned that ball pythons are off the list because many of us supplement our income by breeding these animals. My income from this makes up half of my yearly income, so I'm very MUCH concerned.

This does not mean we do not care about the boa breeders, or the burm breeders, or that we're going to stop fighting--it means we're relieved we aren't out on the street!

[Hypnotic Exotic]

Us ball breeders are concerned that ball pythons are off the list because many of us supplement our income by breeding these animals. My income from this makes up half of my yearly income, so I'm very MUCH concerned.

This does not mean we do not care about the boa breeders, or the burm breeders, or that we're going to stop fighting--it means we're relieved we aren't out on the street!

Don't get me wrong. I'm relieved as well. I'm just pointing out that there are some that sit on the sidelines because it doesn't affect them. I know that's not the case with all as it is not the case with myself. I know Ralph Davis has been pounding at these bills and he is pretty much 100% balls. So I wasn't trying to say it was everybody, just calling out those where this is the case.

[SGExotics]

Don't get me wrong. I'm relieved as well. I'm just pointing out that there are some that sit on the sidelines because it doesn't affect them. I know that's not the case with all as it is not the case with myself. I know Ralph Davis has been pounding at these bills and he is pretty much 100% balls. So I wasn't trying to say it was everybody, just calling out those where this is the case.

If you are referring to "Homegrownscales" .. Isn't that the girl who got the news report done on S373? lol

[Hypnotic Exotic]

Whoa people. Look, I'm not saying all ball breeders are going to lay down on this now. I just fear that many will. I applaud those that continue the fight and I applaud Homegrownscales for her efforts so far. Let's just keep the fight going until this is defeated, that's all. I also hope that the colubrid, venomous, lizard, turtle and all other herp keepers are with us in this fight. We need everybody. The HSUS is very clear on their site that they oppose ALL reptiles as pets. If they aren't after your species right now, they will be. I think it is no mistake that this bill is much more narrow than what HR669 was. They learned their lesson and I believe the approach right now is to pick us apart and some in this hobby are falling right into that trap.

[fhayden]

Florida doesn't seem to be the only range the large python can survive according to the USGS report. This was taken from the report: Due to the wide rainfall tolerance and extensive semitemperate range of P. molurus, large areas of the southern United States mainland appear to have a climate suitable for survival of this species (Fig. 4.5). United States areas climatically matched at present ranged up the coasts and across the south from Delaware to Oregon, and included most of California, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and South and North Carolina. By the year 2100, projected areas of potential suitable climate extend northward beyond the current limit to include parts of the States of Washington, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York. Thus a substantial portion of the mainland United States is potentially vulnerable to this ostensibly tropical invader. In addition to the mapped areas of the U.S. mainland, the territories of Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico would appear to have suitable climate. Areas of the State of Hawaii with elevations under about 2,500 m would also appear to be climatically suitable. Climate suitability is just one factor in the establishment of an invasive species, a necessary but not sufficient condition.

What I want to the know if the heck can a burm survive in the wild in the northern states? That sounds far fetched to me considering the length of the northern winters and the extreme low temps.
Frank

[WingedWolfPsion]

For one thing, as I understand it, they matched the Indian python, not specifically the Burmese. For another, the wishy-washy language in the text you quoted there points out that climate isn't the only factor involved, and other factors might prevent them from establishing in those areas. In other words, it's a load of BS.