Radient Heat Panel question

[BeastMaster]

The right up says they (Big Apples) emit infrared heat waves, how do the Pro Panels or RBI panels differ? I'm confused

If heat panels are not hot to the touch, how do you control the temps? Will the thermostat probe pick up the infrared heat waves? Thanks, -Rob

[Lucas339]

heat pannels are hot to the touch....just not as hot as flexwatt. they have a textured finish so that when you touch them, you won't burn. a thermostat measures air temps. it is designed to shut off the heat when a certian temp is reached. this will happen with any type of heating equipment used.

as for the RBI construction, they review didn't say what the heating element is. im not too sure how a fiberglass element will compare to the wire used by pro prodcuts. the construction is about the same. i will ask some more smart than me about the fiber glass element.

[Wh00h0069]

heat pannels are hot to the touch....just not as hot as flexwatt. they have a textured finish so that when you touch them, you won't burn. a thermostat measures air temps. it is designed to shut off the heat when a certian temp is reached. this will happen with any type of heating equipment used.

as for the RBI construction, they review didn't say what the heating element is. im not too sure how a fiberglass element will compare to the wire used by pro prodcuts. the construction is about the same. i will ask some more smart than me about the fiber glass element.

Hi Lucas, the write-up stated, "The heating element of the panel is made from a fiberglass cloth." Flexwatt is not fiberglass cloth, so RBI's heat panels must not be made with flexwatt.

[Lucas339]

correct. never said it was like flexwatt....said i was unsure about the RBI. but im curious as to the compared efficency with pro products pannels.

[Thomas Jones]

I run helix and RBI heat panels at the store I manage. Helix is good but has a lip the animal can climb up on.(I have had boas,balls and lizards stuck up there for days)
RBI heat panels are better in my opinion. They fit flat to the top of the cage ,no where for an animal to hang from. Very easy to install with just 2 screws(included) The best part is the customer service Rich provides. Friendly service,Fast delivery and a great product.

Be sure to get a Ranco or Johnsons Control thermostat to hook those panels to.

[Wh00h0069]

but im curious as to the compared efficency with pro products pannels.

Same here. I have heard that Pro Products heat panels are better, but have never been told why...

[Lucas339]

probably the heating element makes them better.

the pro products has not lip for animals to hang on either.

[promist]

All of these heaters that are mentioned are different. Big Apple’s radiant panel (and I use the term loosely) is nothing more than a laminated heating element, (constructed differently than flexwatt) which they direct their customers to adhere to the top of the cage.

In theory, anything that emits energy within a certain wavelength is technically a radiant emitter. In reality, based on the type of heat source, how it is designed, the type of housing surrounding the element and the efficiency at which the surface can emit the energy all must be considered to determine the efficacy, safety and service life of the unit.

Since temperature, along with the efficiency of the heater emissivity play a large role in how well a heater will operate, a panel of this type just can’t perform very well. For the panel to be able to emit any appreciable amount of BTU’s from the unit (this is the important measurement that should be compared, watts only tells one how much electricity the unit is using, not how efficiently it is emitting energy from the unit), the heating element would have to get close to or higher than the melting point of the polyester laminate. For this reason, this specific type of unit is very limited in being able to truly provide much energy above a given ambient room temperature.

Big Apple’s unit and all of the panels sold by Helix, RBI, Boaphile, Beanfarm and so forth all use a fiberglass element made by Flexel Int. in Scotland. With the exception of BA, these panels all enclose the element inside of a plastic and fiberglass shell. The BA’s element is designed differently than the uncovered element used in these other panels.

Pro Heat radiant panels use a proprietary patented resistance technology that is incorporated directly into the aluminum face of the panel, so the heating element is the panel surface.

I dismiss the BA’s product as it is a very poor example of a radiant heat source as most people that use them find out. They are inefficient and will only provide temperatures a few degrees above the ambient temps, especially as the distance from the panel surface increases or the room temperatures get colder.

Regarding the other panels, to understand the performance differences, you have to understand the basic physics behind radiant energy and how different designs affect the performance and safety of a particular unit.

To be efficient, the energy that is created must be within a specific narrow wavelength band and radiate from the panel as fast as possible toward the desired area. Using materials that retard the heat transfer result in fewer BTU’s going where they are intended and higher parasitic heat losses, wasting a portion of the energy (so costing more to operate the heater).

The most efficient radiant heater must have the element and the emitting surface of the panel being one and the same. There are many examples of this when you look at a properly designed unit. The parabolic heaters sold by many stores, glass radiant wall heaters and overhead gas heaters found at many larger retailers are efficient radiant emitters using the laws of physics to maximize their performance (ever stood at the checkout at Home Depot during the winter and feel the heat coming from 20’ overhead?), not to mention the best example, the sun.

Installing a heating element inside of an insulating plastic or fiberglass shell is nowhere near as efficient since these materials have high insulating properties that retards the transfer of energy, resulting in a lower BTU output, higher internal temperatures and greater parasitic heat losses. Higher internal temperatures pose many potential risks and problems and is the reason why one brand is using a “safety fuse” in case the panel gets too hot, even though such a device will not eliminate the possibility of the element shorting out or causing a fire. A properly designed radiant source will not have internal temperature issues, so such a device is not required.

The surface of the emitter also is very important regarding how efficiently the energy is released vs. retarded. A relatively smooth hard surface is a very poor emitter, resulting in poor performance. A textured surface with specifications allowing a high rate of emissivity will provide the highest rate of release and diffusion of the energy throughout the area being heated. This is confirmed by several engineering organizations such as ASHRAE and in such references as “The radiant heating and cooling Handbook”, one of the most definitive references regarding proper radiant energy design.

The subject that should be of the highest concern is the safety of the heater. You are betting the safety of your animals and your house with any heating device. With the exception of BA’s and Pro Heat radiant panels, none of these other products or the heating element are UL, ULC or CE listed. The flexel heating element used is advertised as a long lasting fiberglass element. This is a piece of very thin fiberglass cloth that is impregnated with a resistive material. The flaw with this element not stated is there is no way a good conductive electrical connection can be created using safe industry standard methods as there is no glue, solder or any other material that will create a proper, continuous tight electrical bond between the buss bar and the material. Instead, the buss bar has to be attached onto the cloth with a sewing machine. This creates the risk for product failure, which this element has a long history of, including shorting out and causing structural fires. Due to this design, there is no way to absolutely guarantee that a problem will not occur, including the use a safety fuse, thermostat or other device.

Pro Heat panels are UL, ULC & CE listed, constructed of non-toxic materials and can never catch on fire, damage any surface or injure an animal. They are also built in accordance with all of the requirements necessary to create the best heater design and performance, so are more efficient than other brands. They are also the only panel that is UL approved for use in high humidity conditions.

BA’s element is CE listed, so also doesn’t pose a risk of a fire when used properly, but is limited in performance, so in most cases, will not be able to provide the required temperatures.

I am not trying to make this sound like an ad, but rather present these are facts that can be substantiated so one can understand the differences and safety factors with the products being discussed. Several fires, law suits, and distributor bankruptcy cases regarding liabilities with the flexel unlaminated element can be found by doing a google search. we have also had many calls over the years regarding the failure of this element being used in radiant panels sold in our industry. It usually doesn't happen right away, rather it takes time before a problem occurs.

It is one thing to buy one product over another such as a cage, accessories and so forth based on looks, price etc. Even though there may be a better built cage available, a cage doesn’t pose any risk of burning your house down. No one seems to care about something as important as this until it is too late.

This is why almost any company will have their products certified by a third party such as UL or CE, to assure their customers that the product will not create a fire hazard or other risk when used properly. Look around your house and try to find something that isn’t UL listed. To buy a product that hasn’t been proven safe is absolutely playing Russian roulette, especially when there is a track record to the contrary. No mater how small the odds, this is a real risk that occurs every year.

Bob Pound
Pro Products

[BeastMaster]

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That was a fantastic amount of information! Thank you very much

[BeastMaster]

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