Jen Harrison Split from Big Daddy's Wholesale Thread

[wilomn]

I apologize for detouring this thread as it is about someone else, but someone mentioned to me that I had been brought up here, so I thought I would come clear a few things up.

#1 -- I never sold a single snake that was sick or a snake that was here during this ordeal. They are all still here (what's left). Jas, you need to get your facts straight before you run your mouth.

#2 -- I did not purposely breed my snakes during the ordeal. I bred them before the virus came in and in the very beginning days when it was still being assumed as a regular routine bacterial RI by my first vet (back in September/October). I stopped all breeding shortly thereafter as learned it was a virus, but the few females I had left continued to ovulate in January/February anyway. Not much I could do to stop that.

#3 -- The minute I saw the above mentioned females ovulate, I repeatedly asked every vet working on this case (including Dr. Jacobsen in Florida -- who is THE leading veterinarian researcher on OPMV) if it would be safe to incubate the eggs or if they should be discarded. Each and every time I got the same answer -- yes, the eggs would be fine, as the virus doesn't transmit from mother to embryo. So, when they were laid, I asked them one more time -- got the same answer -- and kept them.

#4 -- As details came out about the virus, transmittal methods (airborne via fluid particles, not remotely environmental), incubation periods for antibody development, and infectious periods, I was given the all clear to begin rebuilding with new snakes selectively after it had been over 60 days since the last death/active symptom. The virus is only contagious when there is an actively symptomatic snake present -- and since they all died (save for 2 that we treated with double antibiotics and the imported vaccine, and subsequently are healed), the infectious period was considered over by my vet team. I was also given the all clear to sell my babies by all 3 reptile-specific vets involved (the two working on my case and the third that was Wyatt's other victim), as they would not have been able to inherit the virus genetically, and were not alive during the time that any sick snakes were present. They have all subsequently been vaccinated upon hatching as well as all remaining adults in my collection that were in the quarantined group that never got sick in the first place. We followed the exact protocol that other OPMV cases in Europe followed, and those collections have been virus-free ever since. I wouldn't be selling this clutch of babies if I felt there were any risk to anyone else. When I am told by the one person that knows and understands this virus better than anyone on the planet (Dr. Jacobsen) that the babies are just fine, I tend to believe him. If others don't feel as comfortable and would not want to purchase from me -- that is entirely their right and I wouldn't hold that against anyone. That is why I've been so open about the entire ordeal, so that everyone in our hobby is aware of what can happen, and so that potential customers of mine know what I went through. The remaining adults that I have that were segregated in my room and avoided becoming ill may or may not be carriers -- there is no way to tell. All were vaccinated, and based on previous history with this virus, this should have stopped the infectious spread. If they do carry it, none are infectious or contagious unless they flare up at some point and become sick. It is dormant until then -- not transmittable. For this reason I will never, EVER sell or otherwise give up ownership of any of those animals. They will never leave my posession. As explained to me by my vet team, they are still safely breedable and any new additions to my collection and offspring produced will remain virus-free so long as it remains dormant in the founding animals. Everything I bring in now has a mandatory 3-month quarantine in a separate room -- I turned my bedroom into a quarantine room and rat breeding room (much to the dismay of my husband, but I don't care). I will only buy from a select handful of people I know well -- my trust for others has been destroyed.

#5 -- This was brought up elsewhere: That some are bothered by the fact that I didn't wipe out the rest of my animals and start completely over. Or in their terms, "cull" them. My answer to that is this -- my collection is not just breeding stock. They are my pets, including the two that mean the most to me that started this entire hobby. If I had lost them to the virus, I would have given up and never kept another snake. In following what other veterinary professionals and other keepers did in Europe when facing this same event, there was no viable reason in either my mind nor my vet team's minds to destroy all the animals when the vaccine was proven time and time again to stop the virus dead in its tracks and prevent all further spread/illness, even 5 years later. We obtained this vaccine from a vet in Germany and used it in the exact same method as proven by others. If one of the remaining animals in my collection flares up again at any given point in the remainder of its life, then I will shut down my collection once more and will no longer be breeding. There is no reason to kill them when they still would be just fine as pets if the situation calls for it.

I'm sorry if I upset anyone by my decisions or actions, but I made them based on sound information given to me by professional that know far better than any of us in this hobby. If you don't trust their info and don't want to buy from me -- I totally understand. If anyone has any other questions, please feel free to e-mail me.

Here's the things jen.

Suppose one of your carriers starts shedding the virus while you have babies for sale. You don't know he's shedding it because his health has not yet begun to deteriorate.

You have a mess of babies on their way out to other homes with other snakes.

Do you see the problem here?

Unless you can 100% guarentee that there is NO possibility of infection, you should NOT be selling anything.

Buy all you want, it's your nickle you're spending but to put someone elses project or livlihood in jeapordy, because the leading vets say it SHOULD be ok, is, simply put, reprehensible.

You are basically saying that you are ok with taking a chance that someone else will have to go through what you did.

Sorry Chica, but that's wrong.

Pets or not, you should either remove the snakes you have, for sure the two from the original batch and maybe even all the rest, from whatever facility you wish to sell out of and either keep them totally seperate FOREVER, never breeding, or destroy them.

The fact that you are selling takes the emotional attachment you have for them right out of the picture for your customers. You need to grow up and stop making excuses for why you're keeping them.

Also, unless your bedroom is airtight it's not a proper quarentine. You have had this discussion with several others in the past.

And last but not least, if people are donating snakes to you to replace the ones that died, while you are within your rights, they would be yours once you recieved them, to sell them, don't you think it's sort of a sucky thing to do?

All the vaccinations in the world don't mean diddly if there is ANY chance at all of whatever your snakes had of coming back and infecting ANY other snake, be it one you're keeping or one you're selling.

[rabernet]

Split posts from http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=65971

[Beardedragon]

Can some bring up the whole ordeal with her? Im not sure what this sickness is so im a little lost yet id like to follow this thread.

[CeraDigital]

IBD, I believe...

[JASBALLS]

"#1 -- I never sold a single snake that was sick or a snake that was here during this ordeal. They are all still here (what's left). Jas, you need to get your facts straight before you run your mouth."

Didnt sell but posted an ad to sell them?? I'll open my mouth when ever I want to! Thanks...

[LadyOhh]

Not IBD...

Here is the link.

LOOOOOOOONG Read.

Kinda starts here... You can read from the beginning though.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ighlight=Wyatt

[CeraDigital]

Not IBD...

Here is the link.

LOOOOOOOONG Read.

Kinda starts here... You can read from the beginning though.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ighlight=Wyatt

Ah, ok! Thanks, Heather

[babygerl3094]

http://pinkladyconstrictors.com/?page_id=20

i think this is the story off of her page

[rabernet]

No - not IBD

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=99539

Deleted link that Heather had already provided!

[Tosha_Mc]

You know when I clicked on the Jen Harrison link on the BOI - I truly was hoping that I wasn't going to read that she was buying or selling snakes - this soon. And I am frankly appalled that she is -- but I am not surprised - with the lies she told throughout the ordeal as well as some other stuff that came up afterwards -- well I just get the impression her integrity is compromised.

Her own expert suggests that its possible to have asymptomatic carriers and that nothing should go in or out of a collection for at least one if not two years following the last death. Now all of a sudden it's ok for her to sell of those babies?!?!?! They should never have been incubated in the first place. If it were me I'd honestly either keep the remaining ones as pets and never breed again or cull them and move before starting over -- but that's just me.

At this point I'm having a real hard time believing what she says. And I have a hard time understanding her justifications. JMO.