Stressed baby please help!!

[Violanna]

So I have had this baby for almost 2 months and she has been stressed the whole time. Unfortunately she has had to be moved to different enclosures twice now. If you have seen my other posts you know first I moved her from a large enclosed to a small one. Now I had to move her again as my missing adult female was found and I had to get new set ups for all 3 of my girls that fit the limited space I have. I’m linking a picture of Nezuko’s enclosure. It is not fully set up yet. Things I still need to add are a hydrometer, UTH, more plants, and blacking out the sides. Can you please check my set up and tell me if you notice anything else I can do? Also I noticed since I put her in this new enclosure 2 days ago she is drinking, and soaking, ALOT but only during the day. I am noticing if I turn lights off in the room she stays in her hides but when the overhead light comes on she gets very active and upset like she is trying to escape. I can not give current temp or humidity readings until tomorrow, all the remaining items I’m waiting for were ordered from Amazon. I really need this baby to feel safe, I have not gotten her to eat yet. I refuse to even try again until I notice her settle.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/198549...posted-public/

[Armiyana]

Drinking and soaking sounds like an overheating issue with how you describe things...you said you were waiting for a uth? Is there some other form of heat?
You should not have an animal in an enclosure until you verify the temperature is safe and correct. You really need to get this figured out immediately! Overheating can cause permanent neurological issues or organ damage.

[Bogertophis]

Soaking in the water bowl, or trying to escape- I'd be very concerned that she is too hot- & you need to take the temperatures NOW, not tomorrow.

BPs do not like bright lights- fyi. Avoid using them. (Ambient room lighting is plenty for most snakes- & certainly for BPs)

You're correct to wait for her to settle for AT LEAST a week before offering food. DO NOT HANDLE her. You already know that all these moves are not helping her- and stressed snakes that don't eat can get sick & die- so do everything you can to make this right. Remember this is not her fault.

That's a lovely enclosure but way too "open" for a shy BP- IMO, she's not going to feel safe in there. Covering the back, sides & part of the front may help, but it's still pretty big. I don't have a crystal ball to foresee the future, as to how long it will take, or even IF she'll settle down in there & eat for you. Moving her so many times is a huge mistake. Good luck- you'll need it.

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This will sound crazy but I'll suggest it anyway- take it or leave it-

That decor is lovely but not what this snake needs. Stick to basics- proper temperatures & humidity, plenty of room to hide.

If that was suddenly MY snake, knowing what she's been thru, to make her feel safe & secure I'd probably empty out that tank (everything above the substrate) & either find or MAKE a HUGE cardboard hide that covers most ALL the bottom- making an enclosed "first floor"- and I mean wall to wall*. (*It will need to be slightly smaller than the opening on top of the tank- there is that molding to consider- and I'm assuming this opens on the top???)

You can cut down clean boxes & tape them together (make sure no unstuck tape is sticking out that a snake can get stuck ON)- open on the bottom like normal hides, but essentially making a totally enclosed "dark-room" for the snake- & then cut 2 holes ("doorways") on top a little ways apart, just big enough for the snake to come out when & IF she wants. This "hide" should be just a little taller than she is- about 3" would be nice. Underneath this hide I would put a few smaller, cozier hides- boxes are fine for now- so she can feel totally snug & secure.

Add some moisture to the substrate before you install this, then leave it alone & don't worry about humidity for right now. (Cardboard boxes absorb water so don't be spraying them, lol.) Put a small water bowl under this giant hide also. So all you'll see is a giant, flat "box-hide" with exit holes if she wants to come up & out. Leave it up to her.

You can add some lightweight "cover" on top of this hide so she doesn't feel exposed if & when she comes out- actually an old towel might be nice- it's soft, offers some traction & if you rumple it up, she may like to go under it. Once she moves in, DO NOT pick up the hide to spy on her- wait. The entire goal is to help your snake feel safe enough to eat & settle in.

In the evenings, you should see her getting brave enough to peek out of the doorways, & ultimately to come up topside to explore. After you see that for several days, try offering food in the evening when she is peeking out- let her grab & take it in to eat- DO NOT LOOK. Wait- if she eats it, you'll smell nothing- if you bother her & she rejects it- your nose will let you know the next day, at which time you'll have to fish it out. So better to not offer food the first time you see her peek out, but let that continue for several nights to make SURE she's ready to eat & for best results; hopefully she will ultimately eat for you & settle in. If this works, you'll want to wait as long as possible (thru several feedings) before gradually reducing & removing this "box-hide".

Like I said, this is what I'd do, & also put another bowl of water (not too heavy!) on top, just in case the inside bowl goes dry.

[Violanna]

Ok I was not clear I DO have temp readings. I meant I wont have my complete set up accurate readings until tomorrow! I currently have a CHE attached to a thermostat set to 82. Probe is directly next to her hot hide. Water is currently on the cool side, I usually have it on the hot side of my enclosures for humidity and may adjust the CHE to the water side once the UTH is here. I also double check temps with a laser thermometer, which are currently reading lower than i like. Hot side is 80 on substrate inside the hide, but 85 on top the the hide itself. She is currently curled up happily in the hot hide. Cool side is way too low at 69 on substrate and 71 ambient. My UTH will be here in the next couple hours and i will be completely adjusting my heating.

Also as I have mentioned I have had her almost 2 months and she has not had a shed yet. Could that be why she is drinking so much? I am leaving her alone so I can't tell if she is in pre-shed. I DO have the hydrometers now and that is too low, even though I soaked the substrate during set up, only 50% so ill be soaking it more. For context I have 4-5 inches of substrate, coco coir bottom with 1.5 inches of orchid bark top. If you look at the picture you can see the substrate height.

As far as doing the whole box hide, I already plan to black out the sides will this be enough if I black out all sides? I may even add foil to the lid, its a top slide open since you asked. She definitely did NOT like larger hides AT ALL. I had ones that she would grow into with in 6 months or so in the last enclosure, and she almost never went in them. She IS however using the tiny hides in this one, She also seems to love hiding in the vine and branch next to the hot hide. I really am hoping that her issue is just being mad about the lighting in my room! That is a very easy fix with getting the sides all darkened! I will say she seem much more comfortable in this new hide than she did in the last 2.

A couple of you mentioned my decor. This is just items I had on hand and sanitized. More will be here in a couple hours with my amazon order. Can I get some recommendations on decor set up and if there is anything I should definitely have or definitely avoid? I am honestly really worried about this little one! I have never had such a stressed out snake before and I am so ready to make it right! I feel like the worst owner ever right now! Honestly if I can avoid having to add or remove too much that would be great, I would prefer to just work on everything i need to on the outside.

[Bogertophis]

If you plan to add UTH heat, your substrate is WAY too deep- it won't be effective at all unless you minimize substrate over the UTH. That deep is wasteful anyway. And yes, 69* IS too low.

Adjusting substrate & everything else is going to create further disruption for this poor snake. This is why we remind everyone to set up & thoroughly test enclosures before a snake ever moves in.
I'd stick to the basics- the decor makes you feel like you're doing something but it is NOT important right now- an overall sense of security for this snake IS.

Snakes drink because they need water- with or without a shed cycle. They drink more if humidity is too low. They also drink when not eating (they get some moisture from their food). Water is more essential for survival than food is- snakes (& humans+) last longer if they're at least hydrated- without water, life stops sooner than being without food, though neither is a good option.

Re- her not liking larger hides- I did mention that you'd also want a couple SMALL hides under the "false floor" for enhanced perception of security- snakes like to feel snug, wedged in- so yes, provide that always. If hides are too big, you don't need to buy new ones all the time with a growing snake- you can stuff paper into a hide to make it feel smaller while your snake grows into it.

I cannot tell you IF it will work for you to merely cover the sides of this tank- it's your snake, do what you want. I only told you what I'd personally do- & I have decades of experience with all kinds of snakes & hundreds of them at that. At this point, I'd not want to risk a further fail this snake- that's what I'm saying. Have I ever actually done what I suggested? Yup, you bet.

[Violanna]

UPDATE! So I got all my remaining items and finished the setup. Temps via temp gun are 83.3 in hot hide and 75.2 in cool hide, humidity is still a bit of a struggle as Im used to hot side also being the water side. It is currently at 56%, but luckily humidity is an easy fix.

However the more important news is that from the moment Nezuko settled after I finished with the set up, which only took her 45 mins. She has not wandered once!!! She seems cozy and satisfied with her home for the first time! So I will now give her a week to get accustomed to it then try feeding again! Thank you all so much for your help!

[Zincubus]

UPDATE! So I got all my remaining items and finished the setup. Temps via temp gun are 83.3 in hot hide and 75.2 in cool hide, humidity is still a bit of a struggle as Im used to hot side also being the water side. It is currently at 56%, but luckily humidity is an easy fix.

However the more important news is that from the moment Nezuko settled after I finished with the set up, which only took her 45 mins. She has not wandered once!!! She seems cozy and satisfied with her home for the first time! So I will now give her a week to get accustomed to it then try feeding again! Thank you all so much for your help!

Those temps you mentioned… are they surface temps ?


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[Violanna]

UPDATE!!:

So my girl is still LOVING her home. I do still see her come out when my bedroom fan light turns on but she stays hidden in her foliage and just goes for a drink then back to hiding. I am most likely purchasing either a dimmer or soft lighting vs my current bright white.

But even bigger news!! I finally got her to eat last night!! It took me setting a live fuzzy rat in with her and just leaving it overnight. While I was still awake she was VERY interested in the rat but seemed confused about attacking and eating so she just sniffed and cuddled it. But this morning I woke to no rat in the enclosure and a baby with a FAT belly!! I am absolutely thrilled! I know I can continue doing this for the next 2-3 feeds. However she will be too big for fuzzies soon. If I can’t get her to start taking rats from me what other options can I try? I refuse to leave a rat in with her that could bite her while I’m not watching.

For my oldest snake I just stun the rat and wiggle. Would stun and leave it in overnight work?

[Bogertophis]

UPDATE!!:

So my girl is still LOVING her home. I do still see her come out when my bedroom fan light turns on but she stays hidden in her foliage and just goes for a drink then back to hiding. I am most likely purchasing either a dimmer or soft lighting vs my current bright white.

But even bigger news!! I finally got her to eat last night!! It took me setting a live fuzzy rat in with her and just leaving it overnight. While I was still awake she was VERY interested in the rat but seemed confused about attacking and eating so she just sniffed and cuddled it. But this morning I woke to no rat in the enclosure and a baby with a FAT belly!! I am absolutely thrilled! I know I can continue doing this for the next 2-3 feeds. However she will be too big for fuzzies soon. If I can’t get her to start taking rats from me what other options can I try? I refuse to leave a rat in with her that could bite her while I’m not watching.

For my oldest snake I just stun the rat and wiggle. Would stun and leave it in overnight work?

Dimmers are very convenient & not only for snakes. I have dimmers everywhere, fyi. Snakes hate bright lights- don't use them.

Great that she ate- And new snakes should be fed the same prey as whatever is working for a while- there's no mandatory reason to stop after "the next 2-3 feeds"- she won't starve to death, & if a meal is on the small side, she'll be hungrier & MORE likely to settle for pre-killed (either f/t or fresh killed "f/k") when you offer them the right way. I'm glad you know better than to leave a live rat in there- one with eyes open, because they'll bite in self-defense, or even hunger- they've been known to eat part of a snake when left unobserved & intended as a meal for the snake.

DO NOT STUN & LEAVE A RAT IN OVERNIGHT- they may recover & kill your snake! "Stunning" is not a perfect process- it's also not very humane.

Do you have feeding tongs? You need them.

Right now your snake took the fuzzy overnight because she's shy & fearful. After another meal or 2, she'll likely get braver- you can try offering from tongs, & once she takes a live one that way, the next time you feed her she'll likely be ready for a bigger meal- so first offer a small live one, then right AFTER she swallows that, use your tongs to slightly wiggle & offer a f/t fuzzy (of a size that won't be "too much food"). The frozen fuzzy must already be thawed, slightly warmed & ready to offer SOON after she finishes the live one, to make this more likely to work. See?

And this is how you teach your snake to accept f/t prey as edible- pretty soon you won't need a live "appetizer" first. As long as you remain "low-key" your snakes should get braver about eating, either from tongs with you there, or drop-fed in the evening. Some snakes need more "baby steps" than others- be patient.

One method I've used for shy feeders is to leave the live fuzzy in a shallow* flat-bottomed bowl (sides just high enough so the fuzzy doesn't crawl out- 1.5-2") that's also heavy enough to be tip proof when the snake crawls on the side of it. This makes it easier to know if & when the snake fed- so you don't have to stress the snake looking thru all the bedding. And some snakes might even eat both a live & f/t (properly prepared, not cold!) fuzzy if left together, but usually the f/t cools off too much (esp. for BPs)- so it's better to check back & offer it using tongs when the snake is still in "feed mode". (ie. soon after they ate the live one)

[Violanna]

This is fantastic information! Thank you so much!! I’m really hopeful I can get her courage up! She is the sweetest girl and I want her happiness more than anything!