Big News Coming Tomorrow!

[Seth702]

My .2 cents worth. Being new and one whos still learning all the aspects in the breeding world I find it very sad to see so many negative opinions pop up so fast on this project. I hope that the OP can prove this out and that the desert project is one step closer to viable. One thing about science or projects of any kind is keeping an open and optimistic mind set. Forming such a firm "its impossible" conclusion from a single bad picture is very disappointing. I wish the best of luck to the OP and hope to see many future updates when these hatch out.

[majorleaguereptiles]

Natural Selection is quite good at taking care of "problems" like infertility.

Of course. Natural selection would probably take care of just about every morph we own in the wild.

it rubs me the wrong way that anyone is still putting the life of their pet on the line to try to prove it out. Yes, it's your pet to do with as you like, for the most part, but if I put the life of my dogs at risk in a similar manner to make puppies, I'd get investigated and probably shut down by the SPCA or the Humane Association, and rightly so. If this really is it, and for OP's sake I hope it is, then great, but the odds are more like that it's not, or that it's a non-repeatable fluke.

I own an English Bulldog, a breed that is still bred despite many problems.

Again, I understand the dilemma here with people breeding females deserts if this happens to be viable...

I'll be honest, if deserts pop out of these eggs, I won't be running to buy and breed desert females myself. I'd be more inclined to sit back and see if the offspring were viable, and if this female could do it again next year, etc... Maybe make a super desert, and then if this line proved successful, I'd then consider getting back into it. That is just my own take at the moment, however as an enthusiast, I really am excited.

[I-KandyReptiles]

My .2 cents worth. Being new and one whos still learning all the aspects in the breeding world I find it very sad to see so many negative opinions pop up so fast on this project. I hope that the OP can prove this out and that the desert project is one step closer to viable. One thing about science or projects of any kind is keeping an open and optimistic mind set. Forming such a firm "its impossible" conclusion from a single bad picture is very disappointing. I wish the best of luck to the OP and hope to see many future updates when these hatch out.

The negative opinions are based on what many people have already tried to do with the desert females. So many have died from becoming egg bound, eggs aren't vital, and more issues.

Of course people are going to be skeptical and I'm disappointed they didn't just keep this to themselves until the eggs actually hatched.

So many people are going to try to breed their desert females now and many are going to die!

[Bruceweb]

The negative opinions are based on what many people have already tried to do with the desert females. So many have died from becoming egg bound, eggs aren't vital, and more issues.

Of course people are going to be skeptical and I'm disappointed they didn't just keep this to themselves until the eggs actually hatched.

So many people are going to try to breed their desert females now and many are going to die!

The issue regards deaths with Desert females is blown totaly out of context..It is crap...How many females have died due to being egg bound? a handful!, The facts are their is no evidence to support a link between any of the females that have died ..The main issue with Desert females is their apparent inability to produce fertile eggs, the vast majority have simply slugged out...a far cry from the scare mongering brigade that dictate that female deserts will die if bred.
I have been waiting for a fertile clutch to be produced, their are many morphs with issues, apparent infertility issues etc that have gone on to produce.

Please can you provide the figures on how many females have actually died due to breeding?...comments like the above, "so many people are going to breed their desert females now and many are going to die" is complete garbagge..But Hey ho!

It will be interesting to see the results of the clutch

[I-KandyReptiles]

Yes, female deserts can die quite easily due to becoming eggbound, which seems quite common in this morph.

I can't give you an exact number as those who worked with the desert gene usually kept pretty hush hush.
http://www.reptilescanada.com/showth...tion-egg-bound
http://radioactivereptiles.blogspot....roven.html?m=1
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...=333250&page=2
http://www.captivebredreptileforums....rt-female.html

[Bruceweb]

Yes, female deserts can die quite easily due to becoming eggbound, which seems quite common in this morph.

I can't give you an exact number as those who worked with the desert gene usually kept pretty hush hush.
http://www.reptilescanada.com/showth...tion-egg-bound
http://radioactivereptiles.blogspot....roven.html?m=1
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...=333250&page=2
http://www.captivebredreptileforums....rt-female.html

Thanks for the links, I have read every thread out there regards the issue, one female was found to have strictures which were found due to the keeper undertaking a ceasarian on his egg bound female..just the one but suddenly all females had strictures, their have only been a handful of females reported to have died due to being egg bound, no link has been proven to date that any of these females deaths were linked in any way to the one female that had strictures..if I am correct, one of the eggs in the female was a fully formed egg & not a infertile slug.

From the onset I have allways kept an open mind on the subject, away from the forums I have spoken to a number of breeders that feel the same.

[Mike41793]

I'm not trying to be an ass about this, because I know amir has been in the game far longer than me, but that snake looks like just a citrus pastel to me...




Comparing these two pics side by side, to my untrained eye, shows that there's no desert in that snake... Once again, just my opinion, but I'm willing to bet money that deserts don't crawl out of those eggs.

[Sean : EbN]

I'm not trying to be an ass about this, because I know amir has been in the game far longer than me, but that snake looks like just a citrus pastel to me...




Comparing these two pics side by side, to my untrained eye, shows that there's no desert in that snake... Once again, just my opinion, but I'm willing to bet money that deserts don't crawl out of those eggs.

Mike,

I'm not trying to be an ass about this either but your post compelled me to reply. In your post you stated "to my untrained eye" I agree on this matter your eye is quite untrained. The animal posted is a Desert. I have owned and bred Deserts and Desert Combos (males) for many many years. Probably as long as Amir! I have a select few Desert combo females that I have kept back to raise slowly, observe AND BREED. I also own Citrus Pastel, Super and Cirturs Yellowbelly animals and none of them would look as crisp and bright as this female in question. I don't know "Cross Exotics" but I am trusting that they have represented themselves honestly here. The neonate photo that you posted above in comparison to the one of the Citrus Pastel (a poorly overcolored photo which looks like it was taken at a reptile show with low K, HPS lights from an overhead warehouse lamp interfering) shows the animals to have very different patterns. Let me try to explain... Notice the head on the Desert in question. The center is an even tone of purple with no really obvious patterning. The non-desert animal would have more of a visible pattern or at least not so even of a tone. Also the cleanliness of the pattern on the Desert with less "keyhole" alien eye stuff going on and a more crisp definition of lines.

On the funny side, we are all artists (an unconventional form of art but artists nonetheless) and sometimes I feel like a painter trying to explain art to someone. Maybe what our TRAINED eyes see is just something that comes from years of understanding our canvas. Please don't label something based on your untrained opinion. Amir is a reputable professional and I really must side with the OP here.

Congrats Cross Exotics! You've given me a glimmer of hope!

[Jake Milbradt]

The neonate photo that you posted above in comparison to the one of the Citrus Pastel (a poorly overcolored photo which looks like it was taken at a reptile show with low K, HPS lights from an overhead warehouse lamp interfering) shows the animals to have very different patterns. Let me try to explain... Notice the head on the Desert in question. The center is an even tone of purple with no really obvious patterning. The non-desert animal would have more of a visible pattern or at least not so even of a tone. Also the cleanliness of the pattern on the Desert with less "keyhole" alien eye stuff going on and a more crisp definition of lines.

Sean,

I've re-read this paragraph of yours several times, and I just want to make sure I'm reading it clearly. Are you saying both of these snakes are pastel deserts? Or only the snake in the second picture?

[Sean : EbN]

Sean,

I've re-read this paragraph of yours several times, and I just want to make sure I'm reading it clearly. Are you saying both of these snakes are pastel deserts? Or only the snake in the second picture?

Jake,

Sorry for confusion... only the snake in the second photo is a Desert. IF the top photo animal actually looks that good and it wasn't a poorly colored/lit photo it is a great looking Citrus Pastel but certainly not Desert.