NEED opinions & advice...

[TaylorMade]

Hey y'all! I'm in a little dilemma & I am wanting some advice from my fellow ball owners & lovers. A good friend of mine was given a male spider & a female pastel in June. At the time she is unemployled, so she can't afford to feed the two snakes every five days. So she came to me asking me to foster her two balls, which is no problem at all. Well, when I got the snakes they were visibly malnourished & taken care of improperly. She had a jar as the water bowl and no UTH, with a gord as a hide & a bunch of sharp shells for decoration. On top of that the female pastel has a stuck shed. & supposedly the male spider has not shed since she got them. They had not eaten in over 6 weeks. Keep in mind, they were born in June & should be on a 5 day feeding schedule. I tried offering her cash money for the two snakes (so I know they will be in good, educated hands) but she turned it down. I've had ball pythons & reptiles in general for a better part of my life. My last ball that passed away was 25 years old. I am very attentive to my reptiles, I check cage temps & humidity every other day, so she & I both know her snakes will be in the best of hands. I'm afraid I'm going to get them back to 100% health & properly fatten them up, and she's that's when she is going to want to take them back. If she does take them back I am very confident the snakes will be improperly taken care of again & they will go back to being unhealthy & malnourished. In this situation, what would y'all do? I figure if I keep offering her cash she may just take it. Or should I just keep a total count of how much I spend on mice to feed them, the $ spent on new hides, UTH, and a proper water dish?... & when she asks for the balls back I can give her the bill? It's a sticky situation, I know, but I just hate seeing snakes that aren't taken care of properly & aren't fed, it breaks my heart & I would hate to see these two snakes to deteriorate. Advice is wanted! Thanks in advance & blessed be!

I'm posting comparison pictures so y'all can better assess the situation.
I can't find my scale at the moment so I put each snake in the same Tupperware container for size comparison.

The first picture is of my female albino, born June 26, 2012.


Second picture is the male spider, born sometime in June as well.


Third picture is of the female pastel, also born sometime in June.

[Inknsteel]

Wow. First, serious props to you for taking them out of the situation and doing what you can to help. From those pics, it's quite obvious they need some TLC from someone who cares enough to do what's best for the animals... As for how to handle the situation, it's a sticky one. If this person truly is a good friend, I would continue offering money for the snakes while not so subtly implying that the snakes were MUCH smaller than they should be at that size. I would also keep track of the expenses for feeding and caring for the snakes in the time you have them. Maybe during your cash offer attempts, you can pull out the records and say THIS is how much I have spent on food. THIS is how much I spent getting the appropriate housing for them. Maybe then your friend will understand that the the money you're putting into caring for them will likely be around what you're offering to pay for them and logic will prevail. Or maybe your friend will lose interest while you have the snakes and she'll just tell you to keep them, or finally take you up on an offer. Without knowing the situation firsthand and without knowing your friend personally, it's a tough call. I'm leery of business dealings with friends as those are the ones that tend to go bad, feelings get hurt and friendships get damaged.

To sum up my long winded post, good luck in however you handle it. It's not an easy spot to be in... But don't give up and keep fighting for what's best for the animals overall.

[TaylorMade]

Wow. First, serious props to you for taking them out of the situation and doing what you can to help. From those pics, it's quite obvious they need some TLC from someone who cares enough to do what's best for the animals... As for how to handle the situation, it's a sticky one. If this person truly is a good friend, I would continue offering money for the snakes while not so subtly implying that the snakes were MUCH smaller than they should be at that size. I would also keep track of the expenses for feeding and caring for the snakes in the time you have them. Maybe during your cash offer attempts, you can pull out the records and say THIS is how much I have spent on food. THIS is how much I spent getting the appropriate housing for them. Maybe then your friend will understand that the the money you're putting into caring for them will likely be around what you're offering to pay for them and logic will prevail. Or maybe your friend will lose interest while you have the snakes and she'll just tell you to keep them, or finally take you up on an offer. Without knowing the situation firsthand and without knowing your friend personally, it's a tough call. I'm leery of business dealings with friends as those are the ones that tend to go bad, feelings get hurt and friendships get damaged.

To sum up my long winded post, good luck in however you handle it. It's not an easy spot to be in... But don't give up and keep fighting for what's best for the animals overall.

Thank you for taking the time to read my long post. You have very good advice & I'm thinking I'm going to stick to keep offering money & then eventually just give her the bill if all else fails. We are very close, so hopefully it won't come between our friendship. She is also an animal lover & I hope as the snakes progress she will realize they are in the best of care. Thanks again for the advice! Have a blessed evening!

[RestlessRobie]

I have a similar situation with ym big girl Dessi (rescued) and what I have done is exactly as stated above kept track of feeding and husbandry costs. As well as medical care given to the snake. If the young girl wants her snake returned she first has to prove she can and will be able to take care of it and second Repay at least a portion of the Husbandry/Food Expense and all the vet bills. So far she has not asked for the snake returned.
Hope this helps you out

[TaylorMade]

I have a similar situation with ym big girl Dessi (rescued) and what I have done is exactly as stated above kept track of feeding and husbandry costs. As well as medical care given to the snake. If the young girl wants her snake returned she first has to prove she can and will be able to take care of it and second Repay at least a portion of the Husbandry/Food Expense and all the vet bills. So far she has not asked for the snake returned.
Hope this helps you out

I hate to say it but I'm glad I'm not alone. Thank you for the advice! She just needs to realize there are a lot of expenses owning snakes... from husbandry to feeding (especially since my breeding pair aren't having any babies), down to even electricity! lol. Thanks again for the helpful advice, much appreciated! & good luck with your situation!

[don15681]

I would also let your friend know now that you want any expense while the snakes are in your care, instead of springing it on her and her saying that wasn't agreed on. the amount can and will add up. good luck, I hope it all works out for the best, don

[KMG]

Did yall have an agreement that she would pay you back? I hope you did. If not I doubt she will take the bill very well. That said, I would give her the bill if she continues to turn down the money. No reason to put money into something that will end up being wasted if she does not start taking proper care when she gets them back.

You may try offering less and less and explain the reason you are offering less is because you are putting money into them so you feel the payment is being eaten up by your care. That way she will have an idea that you are wanting your money back without being blindsided by a bill.

[TaylorMade]

I would also let your friend know now that you want any expense while the snakes are in your care, instead of springing it on her and her saying that wasn't agreed on. the amount can and will add up. good luck, I hope it all works out for the best, don

Thanks Don, we have already agreed to her paying for the food & husbandry items, I could never spring that up on anyone. Lol. Thank you for the advice!

- - - Updated - - -

Did yall have an agreement that she would pay you back? I hope you did. If not I doubt she will take the bill very well. That said, I would give her the bill if she continues to turn down the money. No reason to put money into something that will end up being wasted if she does not start taking proper care when she gets them back.

You may try offering less and less and explain the reason you are offering less is because you are putting money into them so you feel the payment is being eaten up by your care. That way she will have an idea that you are wanting your money back without being blindsided by a bill.

Yes, we have an agreement already. I've offered super cheap IMO... $200 for the snakes & enclosures. But we've settled on just billing her... which will add up quick. So most likely I'll end up owning them. $2.50 a feeding per day adds up quick, especially for snakes. Thanks for the input & advice!

[BlueMoonExotics]

I would definitely let her know that you don't intend to take care of them for free and that when she decides that she wants them back, she will get a bill for the amount you put into them. Let her know what you're buying for them before hand and the reason why. Let her know you won't care for them if she doesn't want to give them what they need to be taken care of properly. I don't mean go out and buy fancy stuff like you might do for your own animals but just things that they may not have that would be necessary for proper care. As a friend I know it's hard to straight out tell them "this animal looks thin/sick (insert any other issue here) and this is what you should be doing." Even if you did many people don't take kindly to it or ignore your advice anyway thinking they know better. I think it would be best to not offer any money for them or push the issue. Just be firm in letting her know that taking care of an animal the way it's supposed to be taken care of isn't cheap and since they aren't YOUR animals then she will need to pay you back or you keep the snakes. She may change her mind if she knows there are no freebies.

[TaylorMade]

As a friend I know it's hard to straight out tell them "this animal looks thin/sick (insert any other issue here) and this is what you should be doing." Even if you did many people don't take kindly to it or ignore your advice anyway thinking they know better.

+1 on that. & your advice is great, you have amazing points. I really appreciate your input!