How do you feel about Alligators & Caymans?

[stratus_020202]

So, we went to the OP reptile expo this weekend. It's way out of season, so it was pretty slim pickings. We ended up spending two hours talking about Caymans & Gators.

The American Alligator can get up to 15' depending on it's sex, and they said what a Cayman lacks in size it makes up for in attitude. I would love to have one. Someday. When I can care for it properly, but I'm torn. I believe there should be a line drawn between wildlife and pets. If you can not control this animal, you should not have it as a pet. For example: I would never own a lion, tiger, or a bear (bad pun on Wizard of Oz); because, I know if that animal gets overly playful, or in a bad mood, I won't be able to handle it.

The Gator lady said if it gets too big, I can exchange it for another baby. I don't know about this either. I'm am very happy they are being responsible sellers, but for me. Do I really want to raise something, and keep exchanging it for a baby? Not being able to take care of something is one thing, but to go into negotiations knowing I won't take of it and can exchange it sounds morally wrong.

What do you guys think? Is there a line between wildlife and pets? Excluding conservation and rescues. Do you think a 15' American Alligator would make a good "pet"?

[darkbloodwyvern]

WOW. I know that some people don't think much of reptiles as pets, but a reptile breeder that will exchange your full grown adult for a baby? That seems a little messed up to me. I mean, i will recycle my garbage, but my pets? My friends? That doesn't seem right to me. Just because it isn't cute and cuddly anymore doesn't mean you should take it back! Animals are not like clothes. If you buy the wrong size sweater, it isn't going to grow bigger in a year! And a cute little pair of jeans will be the same size unless it shrinks in the wash... If you (not you the poster, but you=people in general) want a "cute little gator" look into caimans. If you WANT and can handle a huge, predatory animal that, to me, doesn't fit the definition for pet, then get prepared and wait on it until you are absolutely mature and ready to do it. Lifelong captive crocs and gators have no qualms about biting off limbs or chomping down on heads. maiming and killing is what they are designed to do to animals like us.
I do not think they should be illegal to own, but if you own one, you have to be sure your neighbor's kid or dog can't get anywhere near it. You have a lot of responsibility to a lot of beings in this situation: You have to keep yourself, other people, animals AND your 'pet' safe (and healthy, though that is mostly regarding the gator)! Morally exchanging that adult animal IS wrong. I get attached to my snakes I know they probably don't care one bit for me as long as they are warm and fed. If i were mouse sized, maybe they'd kill me in a second. But I'm the one who rescued/bought/found them and it is my responsibility to ensure they have good lives. As good as a captive animal can expect and hopefully better chances for a long life than they would get in the wild.

What DOES that breeder do with all the returned adults?
I think an alligator is never truly a pet. You can cage it and contain it, but unlike dogs and domesticated animals it has not been bred to respect you. Unlike a smaller reptile or wild animal like a bobcat or corn snake, you are pretty unlikely to subdue it if it decided to bite you or kill you. I hate to say it, but even domesticated animals can be dangerous to humans and wild animals more so. The more educated and proactive you are, the more likely you will avoid a bad encounter, but a wild animal is extra risks on top of owning a large pet animal. Personally, I even have a hard time calling Burmese pythons "pets" since they require so many people to wrangle them when full grown. Animal companion might be a little silly, but it's closer to the idea that you are a guardian to that animal, whether it is a wild mustang horse, giant snake or a beefy alligator seems more in tune with it. You have to know it better than people know their dogs, cats and smaller pets.

I know plenty people get mauled or killed by dogs and horses, but the media really freaks out about pet reptiles killing anyone (or people's furry pets...) so while there might be fewer big snake deaths that dog maulings, people really do need to think about their choice of animal companions. One bad attack is all we need for more legislation to come raining down. This breeder has some questionable ideas about how disposable her animals are. i would never support someone who felt it was better to trade in an old 'pet' simply because it was "too old, too big, too whatever." If you can't handle an aggressive animal, research docile species that might suit you. If you can't handle a 15 footer, don't get an alligator! This is why only a small percentage of snake owners have hots.

[darkbloodwyvern]

The American Alligator can get up to 15' depending on it's sex, and they said what a Cayman lacks in size it makes up for in attitude.

The Gator lady said if it gets too big, I can exchange it for another baby.

Man, sorry. This just gets my goat. I cannot agree with exchanging an animal for this reason....! I can't think of anything so say aside from ranting!

And honestly, just because caimans are more aggro, doesn't mean they are more harmful. A smaller guy can bit your arm 14 times and leave some nice scars. An alligator can decide it wants to make you the next Captain Hook in only one bite. For this fact alone, I would never own a large parrot or something as big and powerful as a gator. Something with the ability to shear off a part of my anatomy with very little effort or thought process is not something I could deal with. Scars might be worth it if I really loved the species I was working with...

[Swilz]

I think that there is far too much responsibility in owning an animal like that, unless, you are an equipped zoo or something of that nature. I can't even imagine first of all what the costs to house and feed something like this is at adult size? Are you so financially secure that you know for a fact you will have that sort of cash to continually be able to upgrade housing and feed for an animal of this size? Also, owning wild life of that nature in some places probably requires a permit, especially if you live within city limits. Example, here in Canada most people are not aware when they buy their cute little "pot belly pig" pets that infact they are not legally allowed to have these animals as pets within city limits unless you own a certain amount of land. So this means by-law can and will remove your pet for you, since you are keeping it illegally. Pot belly pig pets are another one of those brilliant ideas that are going wrong, here the internet is flooded with people who no longer think its cute to own a fiesty pig in their nice homes!

There was an issues here where I live with a family that owned a lion, it swatted (playfully) and hurt a child, so it was sent to live with someone else with no children. Then, the young lion escaped and was running around in the woods outside the city, finally they caught the poor creature and it was sent to live in a cage, in a zoo. The sad part of this is that they raised this poor animal like a dog, couldn't handle it, disaster insued and the animal was locked away with no home whatsoever.

I am not saying that your pet crocodile is going to run away, but there's alot of factors involved in keeping large wildlife that, personally, I think just isnt worth the time for an average person.

[stratus_020202]

Thanks guys! I just couldn't believe how many baby alligators and caymans there were at the show. I had no idea they were becoming so popular. I don't think I would ever own one. Just becuase of thier size and power. I like my pets to be semi-controlable. And, we all know how much bp's love to give kisses.

Do you think this could be bad for our hobby? Anyone could just walk in and purchase an Alligator for a couple hundred bucks. According to the lady, Alligators are tame as puppy dogs. Do you believe her?

[HighVoltageRoyals]

Well, to be honest, I don't see a problem with owning a Cuvier's Dwarf Caimen. Apparently they get around the same size as a Tegu and if you had a secured area for them to live, I wouldn't really see the difference (besides bite potential because unlike the Tegu, they are a little more snappy, though for an alligator, they are considered "docile"). Call me naive but I was actually looking into what it takes to own one of these guys. With that said, I don't have any intention of buying one until I have a large property where I can build a suitable habitat for it.

But owning a 15' alligator that has the potential to take you out if it feels like it? No thanks. Plus, I'm sure it would cost more to house a 15' alligator than to has a 5' dwarf caimen.

[Swilz]

Haha well I don't know anything about alligators really, but I do train puppies and even tame puppies bite.

Personally I don't see it being terrible for the reputation of reptile keepers unless the mass public got the idea that every snake owner was keeping a pet alligator in a room in their basement.