Do you measure thawed feeder temp?

[Kryptic]

When I switched from live feeders to frozen/thawed, I had a hunch. Since Ball Pythons rely on their heat pits so heavily when hunting, I would really increase my chances of getting him to eat a thawed rodent if I made sure that its temperature matched that of a live rodent.

So I went to the local herp store armed with my IR thermometer gun. They sold me the ratsicle and let me check the temperature of some of the live rodents. All my readings were between 88-92°F (31-33.5°C). My skin read ~93°F. I got home and thawed the rat in a plastic bag with the air squeezed out, submerged in the water with a little weight holding it underwater. I thawed it for a couple hours in cool water. I then poured very hot water into the bin it was thawing in. My tap puts out water around 120°F (49°C). My goal was to get the feeder temp a few degrees over the live rodent temperature range. I checked every 15 minutes, replacing the water with new hot water until my IR thermometer read the rodent at 96°F (35.5°C). I then gave it about 10 minutes for for the feeder's temperature to equalize (the inside will be colder than outside) and drop down into the live rodent range. When it read 90°F, I offered the rat, and my snake took it without hesitation.

I already explained why I went through that trouble, but here's where I think I got some payoff to my madness and why I started this thread. So today, I fed my BP. My IR thermometer has been wacky recently, giving me wrong readings. I went through the process I described, took the feeder out when it read 91°F and offered it to my snake. I already had a scented wad of paper in his enclosure. He was peeking out of his hide and ready to eat. I presented his target to him, and he followed it. I presented the rodent and had him leave his hide and hunt it. When he struck, he missed badly, seemed to lose interest, and went back to his starting spot. He's never done this before. He's missed thawed and live, but always kept hunting it aggressively and got it the second time. I tried dancing it in front of him, hanging it in front of him, and finally laying it down in front of him. Nothing. So I check the temperature of my arm with the thermometer. It read about 108°F/42°C. The feeder was reading 88°F. His cool side hide was reading 97°F. The thermometer was reading way high. So I went back and heated the rodent in hot water for another 25 min. At that point, it read a couple of degrees lower than my skin temperature. I offered it again and my snake quickly hit it and ate it as normal.

In all my research on feeding f/t, I've read a lot of different methods of thawing feeder rodents, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone recommend taking the temperature of the feeder before offering it. Yet Ball Pythons rely heavily on their heat pits to detect and accurately attack prey. I suspect that a thawed, but too-cold feeder might be the cause of a lot of unsuccessful feedings. I also suspect that a feeder being too hot is less of an issue than too cold, which, I believe, is partly why the hairdryer method is so well-regarded.

[Bogertophis]

...I already had a scented wad of paper in his enclosure...

I'd be very careful about doing that- he might decide it's edible? I know BPs are usually not the ones swallowing towels & other extraneous things that smell right, but I wouldn't take that chance- or at least modify the way you leave scent in his enclosure so he can't possibly swallow it.

Apart from that,

[YungRasputin]

i think it’s an interesting thing to consider but i have not done this - i do however heat up prey items to the point that i think it would register within the range you described of the live rodents tho

[D-.No]

With the information I have gained on the board, YouTube and with my own culinary background my method has been working really well. I place the the frozen feeder in a BPA free ziplock bag the night before and let it thaw in the fridge.
The following night when I’m ready to feed I heat several inches of water in a Pyrex bowl (microwave) For 2 1/2 to 3 minutes until the water is about 140°. This particular bowl has a plastic lid so I throw the bagged rat in there and cover for 15 to 25 minutes depending on the size of the feeder (20g-30g I’m working with) I give it a bit of an inspection to make sure there is no cold spots. Then I finish it off with a heat gun on low and get the head up to 100°, body stays in the mid to high 90s. Either Roxy is picked up on the ritual of the process or that rat is at an optimal heat because she gets so excited and never misses a strike.


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[Argentum]

I'd be very careful about doing that- he might decide it's edible? I know BPs are usually not the ones swallowing towels & other extraneous things that smell right, but I wouldn't take that chance- or at least modify the way you leave scent in his enclosure so he can't possibly swallow it.

Apart from that,

Normally, I'd have agreed with this - that a BP would be less likely than some (scent-hunters, particularly) to eat something else that smelled like a rodent. Also, that it's a bad idea to risk it happening anyway. After all, it's not moving or warm. However... I just had a first-ever occurrence on Friday. My male hasn't been liking the rats I got from RodentPro - he's been acting interested, lots of tongue-flicking, then as soon as he gets close to them he recoils and hides. I'm not sure if it's something to do with the scent, or what, but it started with the first rat I offered him from that shipment (normally, I was buying frozen rodents from a local source, but they've been out of everything with no idea when they'll get more. He never hesitated in taking those rats). These rats do bleed a LOT more from the nose than any I've gotten from anywhere else.

I figured I'd try to tempt him by scent, so rather than going ahead and feeding his rat to my large female, I left it in his enclosure near the entrance to the hide he was in. That particular rat didn't bleed as much the others I'd thawed out, so I figured I'd come back in a while, give it a burst of heat and see if he'd go for it. However, I returned about a half hour later... to see the tail of the rat disappearing into his hide. That means he took a COLD, MOTIONLESS rat, because there's no way it was still warm - once they're thawed, I only apply external heat right before offering. I left him alone, and checked some time later to confirm - he did, indeed, eat that rat.

That means, it's entirely likely that some other object, if scented like a rat... even though it's cold and doesn't move... might have been swallowed by him had it been available.


Incidentally, my female did not approve of not getting a second rat. She did not approve AT ALL.

[Animallover3541]

I'd be very careful about doing that- he might decide it's edible? I know BPs are usually not the ones swallowing towels & other extraneous things that smell right, but I wouldn't take that chance- or at least modify the way you leave scent in his enclosure so he can't possibly swallow it.

Apart from that,

Yep! I've had my snake go after plastic plants before. Luckily he quickly realized his mistakes. They aren't very smart...

[Bogertophis]

Yep! I've had my snake go after plastic plants before. Luckily he quickly realized his mistakes. They aren't very smart...

Let's just say their senses are limited- they don't rely on vision, & they don't have hands to handle & assess things. In the wild, finding food & water is a full-time job- their instincts propel them to survive & they do the best they can with what they have. They also evolved in a world before humans were spewing trash & debris everywhere.

[Hines9905]

I use a temp gun and usually check the head as well as the sides of the rat. I thaw the rat in a ziploc bag in a bowl of hot water (my tap runs pretty hot) I usually feel the water and replace it a few times until I feel like it is completely thawed, then I use my temp gun to see if it is close to 98 or so. I then usually go next to the enclosure and use the ceramic heat emitter to finish warming if it has cooled down at all (all of this is done outside of the enclosure, so my hand is not in there) usually as soon as I start doing this, Severus pops his head out of his hide and shows he’s ready to eat by getting in his s curve. So far he has always shown he is ready and strikes right away. Lol the first time my husband watched me warming it under the che with the tongs he laughed and asked if I was making rotisserie rat

[Zincubus]

When I switched from live feeders to frozen/thawed, I had a hunch. Since Ball Pythons rely on their heat pits so heavily when hunting, I would really increase my chances of getting him to eat a thawed rodent if I made sure that its temperature matched that of a live rodent.

So I went to the local herp store armed with my IR thermometer gun. They sold me the ratsicle and let me check the temperature of some of the live rodents. All my readings were between 88-92°F (31-33.5°C). My skin read ~93°F. I got home and thawed the rat in a plastic bag with the air squeezed out, submerged in the water with a little weight holding it underwater. I thawed it for a couple hours in cool water. I then poured very hot water into the bin it was thawing in. My tap puts out water around 120°F (49°C). My goal was to get the feeder temp a few degrees over the live rodent temperature range. I checked every 15 minutes, replacing the water with new hot water until my IR thermometer read the rodent at 96°F (35.5°C). I then gave it about 10 minutes for for the feeder's temperature to equalize (the inside will be colder than outside) and drop down into the live rodent range. When it read 90°F, I offered the rat, and my snake took it without hesitation.

I already explained why I went through that trouble, but here's where I think I got some payoff to my madness and why I started this thread. So today, I fed my BP. My IR thermometer has been wacky recently, giving me wrong readings. I went through the process I described, took the feeder out when it read 91°F and offered it to my snake. I already had a scented wad of paper in his enclosure. He was peeking out of his hide and ready to eat. I presented his target to him, and he followed it. I presented the rodent and had him leave his hide and hunt it. When he struck, he missed badly, seemed to lose interest, and went back to his starting spot. He's never done this before. He's missed thawed and live, but always kept hunting it aggressively and got it the second time. I tried dancing it in front of him, hanging it in front of him, and finally laying it down in front of him. Nothing. So I check the temperature of my arm with the thermometer. It read about 108°F/42°C. The feeder was reading 88°F. His cool side hide was reading 97°F. The thermometer was reading way high. So I went back and heated the rodent in hot water for another 25 min. At that point, it read a couple of degrees lower than my skin temperature. I offered it again and my snake quickly hit it and ate it as normal.

In all my research on feeding f/t, I've read a lot of different methods of thawing feeder rodents, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone recommend taking the temperature of the feeder before offering it. Yet Ball Pythons rely heavily on their heat pits to detect and accurately attack prey. I suspect that a thawed, but too-cold feeder might be the cause of a lot of unsuccessful feedings. I also suspect that a feeder being too hot is less of an issue than too cold, which, I believe, is partly why the hairdryer method is so well-regarded.

It’s not just the temp of the rodent that is important imho

It’s when you feed them , where they are in the viv ( under a hide preferably) , how bright the room lighting is etc etc

I’ve sent you details of the hairdryer method


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[Ballpythonguy]

It sounds like you go through an unnecessarily complicated lengthy and complicated process. I have 60 snakes that method would take forever. Here is what I do.

Put rodents in bucket of cool water for about 2 hours till they are in the 60f range. I then put a pot of water on the stove and heat it to no more than 160f. I grab the rat with a pair of long hemostats and dunk it in the hot water about 5 seconds, then I use my laser thermometer to make sure its not to hot. somewhere around 90f. I don't know if this is the right way but it has worked for me for years. I have heard all different methods.