New tank and ball python owner

[Longhorn1890]

Hey all, Ive been spending the last week or so reading through different ball python forums and i decided to join this one.

I also new to owning a ball so please do flame me, or what not. im just here to get some ideas/opinions to making my ball live a long and good life.

anyway, i have a 40 gallon breeder tank that i had bought with the intentions of making a fish tank. i never got around to it, and since i always wanted a python i got one. i had spent some time looking around my area for breeders so i could get a captive one but i had no luck finding any. i started going to my local petco, and i would look at the snakes there every couple days or so. after spending a week looking at one and holding her several times she looked like a good one to get. when holding her, she was very attentive, flicking the tongue around and had a nice somewhat firm grip when checking me out. she had no visible signs of ticks, or mites, no bad scales or discolorations, didnt seem to have any breathing problems, so i figured it was a good buy.

anyway, i have her in the breeder, i know its a very large tank but i have it covered with tons of hides, about 6 to be exact. i have a half log in her cool side, and she really loves it, i also have 2 medium size flowerpots, one in the cool side, and one in the warm, and i made a humidity retreat for her as well, taking a little tupaware container and cutting a decent size hole in it and inning it with damp paper towels. my last hide is in the hot side, and its a medium size coconut that i put some beaked moss around and in the hole in the top so no light would get through. she also has a paper towel tube that allows her to sneak out of her half log and be somewhat concealed as she wanders around the tank.

for substrate i put in repti-bark and just a little beaked moss that i dampen to try to keep my humidity up. she also has a pretty big rock type waterbowl, that i change every day. it sits under one of my two lamps that i use to keep the temp up.

for temp, it varies from 79-82 on the cool side, to 87-91 in the hot side. the ambient temp is 83-85. i had a under tank heater, but it stopped sticking so i was gonna buy a nice one with a temp control in a few weeks from walgreens to put under there.

for humidity, it never falls below 40, i spray around the hot side and middle of the tank with my little 8oz spray bottle once in the morning, once in the afternoon, and then 2 times at night, once around 830, and then 1130 b4 i go to bed. the humidity usually hovers around 50 to 60 percent, and like i said never falls below 40. i was having some problems at first keeping it up, then i used tin foil, shinny side down and covered about 3/4ths of the tank and duct taped it shut. on top of that, i put my 75w basking light over the water source, and i use damp moss as well. i make sure to look at the moss everyday to make sure that its not molding. in addition to my 75w, i have an infrared light that i keep on 24/7, it helps regulate my temps, especially at night when thats the only light on.

now for the snakes behavior. when i brought her home from the pet store sunday, and put her in the tank, she seemed to be ok. she spent the first 10 min seeing how high she could climb, then she just wandered around the tank, flicking her tongue and just checking the place out. after about an hour of this she found the half log on the cool side, and she went in. later that night when i shut off the 75w basking light and just had the infrared one on, she came out slowly and did some more exploring, she found the water and i guess got a little something to drink. she just put the tip of her head in and it looked like a animal trying to drink. i also saw her yawn when she first came out of the log. after about 15 min of exploring she went back to the half log and didnt come out till round 615 that night. it seems she likes to come out right b4 dusk here, 615ish and what not, she spends about 20 min exploring and the she goes right back to her half log hide. ive only held her once since getting her. i reached in lifted the hide log and picked her up. she seemed to be a little nervous at first, coiling into the ball, but she was fine after about of min of me holding her. i gave her a few pets and she seemed to feel a little better about me holder her. after about 3 min. i put her back, and she went back to her hide log, not coming out till around 6 again.

so thats just a little info. i have a few questions and any help or ideas will be greatly appreciated.

1. is her behavior normal for a new python being in a new cage. will she start coming out at night more often once she gets used to the surroundings. i know the breeder tank is big, but ive been told by alot of people who have ball pythons that the tank can work as long as i add tons of hides, and places she can feel safe in. it seems she just really likes to spend most of her time in the half log hide on the cool side.

2. i know humidity should be somewhere around 50 to 60, but is it ok, if just for a little bit it falls to 40-45, it usually falls that low when i go to bed around 1130 and wake up round 7. i go to bed with the levels at 60-65 and the spend most of the time at night around the 50-60 level, when i wake up it typically is around 45. i guess what im asking is that ok, i dont want her to die on account of that.

3. are my temps good. daytime hotside is 87-91 cool side is 79-82, ambient around 83-85, night temps, hot side is 85 and cool side is 79-81. im gonna get a nice uth in a few weeks so that should help with the belly heat although the repti bark feels pretty warm from the lights.

4. lighting, i use both lights from 8am to 830 pm and then after that i use only the infrared one. is it ok to have that one on at night, i enjoy seeing the her when she does come out at night but will she come out more if i have turned the light off. also, what are the rules with tv light, and ambient room light. so far i just turn my room light off when her basking light goes off, is this necessary? or can i leave my room light on a little longer after turning her basking light off.

thanks for your time, and sorry for the spelling errors, i know college students should be good spellers, but im kinda typing this quick.

also again, i appreciate any advice and help, but please, i only ask that you do not attack me or throw verbal insults or any of that kinda stuff, im hear for help not to hear a bunch of people start fighting over different ways to raise snakes. ive been browsing quite a few different boards these past couple weeks and one thing i like about this place is i didnt see any downright nasty fights break out. some of these boards, people just go nuts as if their way is the only to raise a snake, and then the thread becomes of place of fighting instead of helping the original poster out.

with that said, lol, ill get off my soapbox, and eagerly await all your thoughts on helping me keep my little girl healthy and safe.

[zhang317]

Firstly, congratulations on getting a ball python and choosing this forum. It seems like you have done some good research and is doing a good job in terms of care and setup.

and in regards to your questions:

1. Her behavior is pretty normal. When you put a ball python in a tank for the first time, it will check out its surroundings and then settle down in a hid spot. Ball pythons are nocturnal creatures and are more active at night, when they will occasionally come out and explore. However, the general rule is that a "happy ball python is a hiding ball python."

2. The humidity should be at least 50 at all times and raised to around 70 during the shed cycle. The reptibark that you're using is good for holding humidity. Other than using a spray bottle, things you can try are; moving the water bowl closer to a heat source, and covering most of the screen of the tank, while leaving some for ventilation when the heat lamp is.

3. Your temperatures sound about right. You mentioned something that monitors your heat sources, which is good. Keep in mind, un-monitored UTC can reach high temperatures that will harm your snake. If you are using a lamp dimmer, that is okay, but the best is using a thermostat. Also, make sure your snake does not come into direct contact with the heat bulbs.

4. Your lighting is also pretty good. A basking light on a schedule while switching to an infrared one at night is good. But just make sure, the temperature does not change while you do this. Also, you can leave the room light or tv light on, its okay. IF the snake has hood hides, it wont be affected by the light anyways.

a few points of concerns:

1. You mentioned you handled your snake. I know you are super excited because you just got her and everything, but you should not handle your snake within the first week that you got her. Let her settle down a bit. If you are worried about her, just check her up while she is in the tank and exploring at night.

2. Hides. You mentioned you have six. Generally, ball pythons need identical hides: one on the hot side, and one on the cool. This is so they don't choose security over temperature, or vice versa. It is very good you have a clustered tank, this way the snake will feel secured when moving from one hide to another. However, half logs are not the best for ball pythons. They prefer a hide that hugs them from all sides. The flower pots you are using are much better.

3. Heat/Temperature. Although the temperatures you have are good right now. You must make sure they do not fluctuate. It is very important to use temperature monitoring devices such as dimmer or thermostats. Also, you did not mention how you are reading the temperatures. The best way is using two thermometers with probes, one on the cool side and one on the hot.

I hope my suggestions help. I know it can seem discouraging when you log on to a new forum and share your care and setup with others who are more experienced, and at time what you thought was good may have room for improvement. But I'm sure you had the intention to give the best for your new pet, and you are willing to learn. Also, I am completely honest when I say, it seems like you have done a lot of research with a lot of time and effort, you will grow to become a very good ball python owner. Keep up the good work.

[llovelace]

[Longhorn1890]

Thanks for the response and tips.

"1. Her behavior is pretty normal. When you put a ball python in a tank for the first time, it will check out its surroundings and then settle down in a hid spot. Ball pythons are nocturnal creatures and are more active at night, when they will occasionally come out and explore. However, the general rule is that a "happy ball python is a hiding ball python.""

-well, i sure am happy to hear this, i kinda guessed that she just needed a little time to adjust.

"2. The humidity should be at least 50 at all times and raised to around 70 during the shed cycle. The reptibark that you're using is good for holding humidity. Other than using a spray bottle, things you can try are; moving the water bowl closer to a heat source, and covering most of the screen of the tank, while leaving some for ventilation when the heat lamp is."

-I put the basking lamp on top of the water bowl, that seems to help keep it at 40%. i scrapped the tin foil idea, and im trying just putting a damp bath towel on top of screen for about 3/4ths of it. i had really good humidity levels when i put about 3 layers of damp paper towels, so im gonna try this, if it doesnt work, ill go back to the paper towels and make sure to keep them damp, and change them daily, i know it sounds like alot of work, but i really dont mind.

"3. Your temperatures sound about right. You mentioned something that monitors your heat sources, which is good. Keep in mind, un-monitored UTC can reach high temperatures that will harm your snake. If you are using a lamp dimmer, that is okay, but the best is using a thermostat. Also, make sure your snake does not come into direct contact with the heat bulbs."

I have 2 temature gauges in the care, unfortunalty they are the cheap dial ones everyone seems to hate, they seem to work alright, but i do plan on in a month or so, going out and getting some nice digital ones. im trying not to mess with the inside of the tank while shes still new to it. the infared light and the basking lamp provide the hot end at a nice 88 to 91 degrees, as well as keeping the cool side around 79 to 81. they pretty much stay at these temps during the day, it depends on if a nice cool breeze is coming through the window or not, but i always keep a close eye on the temps, and adjust my surroundings if needed. the bulbs rest about an inch off the top of the screen inside their fixtures, do you think thats far enough to make sure she wont get burned, she really cant get up too high in the cage yet.

"4. Your lighting is also pretty good. A basking light on a schedule while switching to an infrared one at night is good. But just make sure, the temperature does not change while you do this. Also, you can leave the room light or tv light on, its okay. IF the snake has hood hides, it wont be affected by the light anyways."

-the temps seem to stay pretty consistent through out the day and night,
daytime, 88 to 91 on the hot end, with 79-81 on the cold. night time is more like 85 on the hotend, and still around 79-81 on the cold. ambient temp is always above 80

a few points of concerns:

"1. You mentioned you handled your snake. I know you are super excited because you just got her and everything, but you should not handle your snake within the first week that you got her. Let her settle down a bit. If you are worried about her, just check her up while she is in the tank and exploring at night."

-yea, i totally agree it was a bad idea to go in there and pick her up, and i havent done so since, i had a couple friends who wanted to see her, and i kinda gave into the peer presure, dont worry, will not happen again. ill prob wait till sometime next week b4 i start holding her, and i was planning on doing it around dusk at first, and just holding her for a little bit to get her used to me, does that sound like a good plan?

"2. Hides. You mentioned you have six. Generally, ball pythons need identical hides: one on the hot side, and one on the cool. This is so they don't choose security over temperature, or vice versa. It is very good you have a clustered tank, this way the snake will feel secured when moving from one hide to another. However, half logs are not the best for ball pythons. They prefer a hide that hugs them from all sides. The flower pots you are using are much better"

-yea i kinds bought that hide log based of some advice i have gotten, but i have also heard a few people tell me the same thing you did about it. i have it back in the cool side of the tank in a corner, do you think i should take it out, she seems to like it and spends alot of time in it. also, should i take out the other hides, or just leave them in there and she can use them if she wants to. i dont mind the extra work of cleaning out the tank and moving things around. also, i put a paper towel tube in there as well, should i take that out? of the all the hides i have in there, the 1 hide log, 2 flower pots, a clear small ziplock container that has a snap on lid which i cut a pretty decent size hole in the top and put damp paper towels in, and a medium size coconut shell in the corner that i put some moss in the top to stop light from coming in, which ones do you recommend i take out?

"3. Heat/Temperature. Although the temperatures you have are good right now. You must make sure they do not fluctuate. It is very important to use temperature monitoring devices such as dimmer or thermostats. Also, you did not mention how you are reading the temperatures. The best way is using two thermometers with probes, one on the cool side and one on the hot."

-like i said eariler i have them little dial ones that people seem to hate. i want to defintley get some nice digital gauges and a digital humidity gauge, and ill prob do that within the next month or so. the temps do not really move that much, during the day within 1 to 3 degrees, and at night, it drops down to hot side being around 85 and cool being 80


i really appreciate your help and input. i read quite a bit up on these little guys, but im a believer in expirence as well. let me know what you think about some of the things i said.

thanks again, and thanks for being patient with me, im a pretty big noob when it comes to these little fellers.

[Longhorn1890]

thanks for the greetings, i really have enjoyed my short expirence with the people on this site so far.

hope to hear from ya sometime

take care

[frankykeno]

Please don't worry about being new and getting "flamed" for asking questions. We have a pretty strong stance against that sort of behaviour around here.

The biggest concern with a 40 breeder is the difficulty in maintaining stable temps and appropriate humidity. Those big mesh lids do a number on that. You should probably consider under tank heating as those overhead bulbs, while they will add heat, tend to suck the humidity out even worse. You might want to check out www.reptilebasics.com and ask Rich the owner for suggestions to heat your 40 breeder appropriately. Make sure he knows the ambient temps of the room this tank is in since glass tends to react to the room it's in and that's a lotta glass.

The other option is to go to a smaller tank or clear plastic tub until your snake is fully mature. The Iris brand plastic tub is glass clear and makes an excellent option to glass or opaque storage bins like Rubbermaid or Sterlite.

Another concern may be a small snake (I assume she's a young one) being a bit intimidated by the large open areas of a 40 breeder tank and not taking full advantage of her hides. She needs to thermoregulate for disgestion and her good health so you need to make sure the enclosure you have set up encourages that behaviour. Ball pythons are very hide loving snakes. They really make very poor display animals as they don't roam much. I have a lot of them and if I went into the BP room right now most of what I'd see is this....

[Slim]

Welcome to BP.net, and congrats on doing your homework!

[zhang317]

-I put the basking lamp on top of the water bowl, that seems to help keep it at 40%. i scrapped the tin foil idea, and im trying just putting a damp bath towel on top of screen for about 3/4ths of it. i had really good humidity levels when i put about 3 layers of damp paper towels, so im gonna try this, if it doesnt work, ill go back to the paper towels and make sure to keep them damp, and change them daily, i know it sounds like alot of work, but i really dont mind.

The thing about spray bottles and damp papers towels is that you have to constantly monitor it. Its best if your setup is self-sufficient. Like what frankykeno said, you can try switching to only UTC, which do not suck the humidity. Or if you don't like the tin foil idea, you can use duck tape. However, you do have a humid hide, which is the Ziplock container with damp paper towels. Some keepers have found this to be sufficient when the over all humidity is lower than 50. Since you already know what the humidity is supposed to be just try around these different technique and see which works best.

I have 2 temature gauges in the care, unfortunalty they are the cheap dial ones everyone seems to hate, they seem to work alright, but i do plan on in a month or so, going out and getting some nice digital ones. im trying not to mess with the inside of the tank while shes still new to it. the infared light and the basking lamp provide the hot end at a nice 88 to 91 degrees, as well as keeping the cool side around 79 to 81. they pretty much stay at these temps during the day, it depends on if a nice cool breeze is coming through the window or not, but i always keep a close eye on the temps, and adjust my surroundings if needed. the bulbs rest about an inch off the top of the screen inside their fixtures, do you think thats far enough to make sure she wont get burned, she really cant get up too high in the cage yet.

Yah, everyone does hate those, lol. Its just because probe ones are far more accurate. But no, she will not get burned if the lamp is on top of the screen. As long as she does not have direct contact with the bulb, its fine.

the temps seem to stay pretty consistent through out the day and night,
daytime, 88 to 91 on the hot end, with 79-81 on the cold. Night time is more like 85 on the hotend, and still around 79-81 on the cold. ambient temp is always above 80

Your temperatures are good during the day. But, they should not drop at night; its not necessary or desired. In the wild, ball pythons spend most of their time in burrows, which do not change much in temperature through the day. Try to keep the temperature the same at all times to avoid difficulties.

yea i kinds bought that hide log based of some advice i have gotten, but i have also heard a few people tell me the same thing you did about it. I have it back in the cool side of the tank in a corner, do you think i should take it out, she seems to like it and spends alot of time in it. also, should i take out the other hides, or just leave them in there and she can use them if she wants to. i dont mind the extra work of cleaning out the tank and moving things around. also, i put a paper towel tube in there as well, should i take that out? Of the all the hides i have in there, the 1 hide log, 2 flower pots, a clear small ziplock container that has a snap on lid which i cut a pretty decent size hole in the top and put damp paper towels in, and a medium size coconut shell in the corner that i put some moss in the top to stop light from coming in, which ones do you recommend i take out?

The minimum in terms of hides is two identical ones, one at the hot side, one at the cool. ITs very important that the snake does not choose security over temperature. If you want additional hides, thats okay too, just make sure they are the same as the main two. And as for the ziplock as a humid hide, thats good if you are having problem with humidity, but it should not substitute as a main hide.

Aside from that, I cant stress enough how important it is to get a heat monitoring device. If you can't get a thermostat at the moment, at least get a dimmer. If you have a thermostat, you dont have to worry about a breeze coming in and changing the temperature, because the thermostat will apply as much power as needed to maintain the set temperature.

Also, dont stress too much about your tank size. Yes, a larger tank will be harder to maintain temperature, humidity and the sense of security, but its not impossible.

Your are very welcome. Your enthusiasm and patience is really good. It seems you know the main requirements about care and setup and you are just tidying things up. Keep the questions coming, everyone here is willing to help.

Oh, if you post pictures of your setup, we will able to get a really good sense of what we are working with.

[Longhorn1890]

"The minimum in terms of hides is two identical ones, one at the hot side, one at the cool. ITs very important that the snake does not choose security over temperature. If you want additional hides, thats okay too, just make sure they are the same as the main two. And as for the ziplock as a humid hide, thats good if you are having problem with humidity, but it should not substitute as a main hide."

- so i should go ahead and take out the wood log, shes still in it, should i in the morning when i change the water go ahead and just lift it up and out of the cage xposing her and making her chose the flower pot as a hide. if thats ok, ill do that. i also have about 4 more of these ziploc containers " http://www.epinions.com/content_176476622468 "

can i make hides out of these. im using one right now as my humidty retreat and also i filled one up with beaked moss and wet the moss and placed it next to the large water bowl and under the lamp on the hot side.

i moved one flower pot to the corner of the cool side, and one on the hot side directrly across from the cool hide one. i have my humidity retreat in the middel by the far side of the tank.

the damp towel is working great right now, has it up to 50 percent and it hasnt changed for 6 hours. i think the lamp above the waterbowl and moss is helping too.

[zhang317]

Well it sounds like you got it down. The positioning of the two flower pots are right on, and you can go ahead and change them whenever. As for the zip lock, you only ever use those for humid hides. Because your main hides should be opaque, so the flower pots are pretty good. If you are looking for professional hides, Reptiles Basics are really good: http://www.reptilebasics.com/Hide-Boxes-p-1-c-282.html

And it sounds like your humidity is holding up well too. As long as humidity and temperature and at the proper level and they are constant, and you providing enough security for your snake, you are fine.

You can always post pictures of your tank, so we get the exact sense of what's going on.