Cinnamon/Black Pastel

[Bluebead]

These mutations are on the same allele, and are very similar, but they are not the same mutation, as they come from different original animals.

This is kind of like comparing butters and lessers. Different mutation but similar supers and can be crossed to produce the same(generalized) supers.

I beleive both have a place in a breeders collection, especially with the problems associated with snout deformities in cinxcin or BpastelxBpastel supers.

Wicked snakes BTW!!!
Albie

[Lucas339]

i think they are different because of the supers. the supers look different.

[Shadera]

If we're talking the selectively bred blacks and cinnamons, yes I certainly see a difference between them. There's no confusing one of Albey's cinnamons with one of say Gulf Coast's black pastels.

The stuff that people are just tossing together with no thought and muddying the characteristics, those I can see why people would confuse them.

[ARamos8]

Really good point Shadera.

I say they are different especially when you compare very good examples of both.

[xdeus]

I voted same, but for a different reason. I really don't think there are only two specific genes, one for Black Pastels and one for Cinnamons. I've seen some Cinnies that look like Black Pastels and some Black Pastels that look like cinnies. There are a LOT of different lines out there and I think a lot of the people that imported them decided to name them one or the other. For example, look at all of the different pastels out there. There used to be many lines but with so many different combos and inter-breeding, most pastels are just referred to now as the generic "pastel". I've bred a number of Cinny clutches from my BHB line with different females, and some come out looking very much like a Black Pastel with high contrast colors whereas others come out looking like a typical Cinnamon with a nice cinny color, faded head and blushing.

Overall I would give the same recommendation that I would when buying a pastel or any snake: buy the snake, not the name.

Here's one cinny that I hatched last year that resembles the above Black Pastel more than the Cinny:

[Kevin_Hornby]

Well wouldn't the easy way to prove it be to breed a cinnamon to a black pastel and see if you get any supers? If you get a super it would mean they are the same right? If they are different then they would make something new..

[LadyOhh]

Well wouldn't the easy way to prove it be to breed a cinnamon to a black pastel and see if you get any supers? If you get a super it would mean they are the same right? If they are different then they would make something new..

It's been done...

Super is a variation of color between the Black Super and the Cinny Super.

[Qetu]

tottaly diferent XD