interesting looking normal, eh?

[shadi11]

cinnamon pastel = black pastel

pastel have white belly. one of her parents was black pastel the other a lemon.

They arent exactly the same. If I could take a pic of my Cinny right now I would show you him next to my black pastel girl. There are differences. Same as there is with the Butter or lesser. The end result might be the same but the visual is different. If memory serves me correct the black pastel came from a totally different parent than the Cinny did.

[t-Roy]

So now they are different? But how could a black be a cinni? I don't know, but 2 names mean 2 morphs to me.

Lets confirm that in this thread shall we?

Are balck pastels and cinni pastels one morph with 2 names?

[shadi11]

I will make a new topic for discussion

[dr del]

Hi,

OK, I'll have a go at explaining this as best as I understand it - feel free to correct me if I get it wrong.

I think the best thing to compare it to would be same morph but a different line the same as Lemon pastels and graziani pastels.

They produce similar but still visually different results when bred to themselves and other morphs - the super cinny is a lovely chocolate brown whereas the super black pastel is a much darker almost jet black animal. The black pewter looks slightly different to the cinamon pewter. However the quality of the animals affects this as far as I can see as well just to complicate things.

But neither super (ie homozygous form ) has any pattern whatsoever and if you breed a cinamon and a black pastel you get an apparent super - just like getting a super pastel by breeding a lemon pastel to a graziani pastel.

This proves that the mutation in each is at the same location.

If you then bred that cinny x black super to a normal ball python the offspring should be 50% cinamons and 50% black pastels.

If they had been different mutations in different areas of the DNA then a closer model would have been breeding a bumblebee to a normal which has the possibility of producing more bumblebees and also of producing normals.

Does that help or hinder?


dr del

[snakedork]

Well i guess here is how i am looking at it. Is a mojave and a butter the same morph. They do produce similar super forms. There combos look similar. Well i don't think they are. Some morphs do make supers that appear the same but yet are different morphs.

[Repsrul]

The Black Pastel is a much darker snake then the Cinnamon. This is the reason I have purchased a Black Pastel over a Cinnamon. The super form of the Black Pastel is also a much darker shade. Even the Pewters that they produce are different. So can you really say they are the same?

[snakedork]

The only reason we bought the cinny is so that we have a better chance of producing the solid dark snake, that is without kinks. That is just my hope.

[LadyOhh]

The only reason we bought the cinny is so that we have a better chance of producing the solid dark snake, that is without kinks. That is just my hope.

There is no better chance from Cinny versus Black Pastel...

And kinks are not the issue in the super...

It's the duck bill.

[shadi11]

I had 3 breeder friends do cinnyXcinny this past year all had kinks in the super. So i did some research and found that it is somewhat normal to have kinking and snout problems. But my major concern due to friends was the kinking. Plus the slight differences in the combo morphs.