Honest opinions needed

[kc261]

About the possible bone damage... I would think that if they had been damaged enough to cause this problem, it would have been apparent immediately, or at least almost immediately. Sort of like people don't walk around on a broken leg for years and then suddenly develop a limp. I'm just guessing. I'm glad to hear you have already spoken to your vet and are taking them to see him. I hope he can help.

That is not my pic. It is a screen shot from another forum. I captured it for a "bad person" thread on another site. I can provide further details via PM if you like.

Sorry. When I posted about it, I should have said I saw the notation on the photo that it was not yours. I would appreciate a PM about it, thanks.

[snakedork]

If you don't mind me asking what do you think the problem is maybe tht would help some of us out.

[asplundii]

I imagine there aren't very many folks out there with much egg-eater experience, though.

Yeah, not many egg-eater people out there...

1. What do you THINK caused this? (You said you had an idea)

Please read above, my post, #9

2. When did you first notice evidence of something wrong?

I noticed the first kink in the male almost a year ago.

3. Did that something appear in both snakes at the same time? Or first one and then later the other?

It appeared in the male first. As I noted above, he got a small kink about a year ago. His locomotion has been off for about 6 months. Only started seeing things in the female about 3 months ago and the locomotion problems for her started a month ago

4. How fast have they "gone downhill" since you first noticed something wrong?

What you saw in the vid of the female has appeared in only a months time. Before that she was slithering like normal.

5

. How much worse is the second one than the one shown in the vids?

Significantly. He would not move or I would have taken a vid of him. Easiest explanation on his motion is imagine a really bad spider ball combined with what you saw in the female.

6. What steps have you taken to try and correct the issue? (ie: extra feedings...calcium supplements...change in diet...medicines...change in environment?)

I have not upped feeding, I did not want to stress them further and wanted to keep handling to a minimum.

It is hard to calcium supplement, when they eat the eggs they spit the shell (normal behavior) and when I have had to tube them it is hard to get calcium supplement dissolved in the egg.

I have not administered any meds or changed they living spaces

7. Did your vet have any advice to offer at all? If so, what was it and were you able to follow it?

Only advice he had was to observe and see how things went. To watch for worsening behavior (which is what prompted this posting and my call to see him this weekend). As I noted, he has no experience with these guys so he is wanting to be conservative in his approach which I understand.

8. Have you seen any signs of improvement at all that might indicate a chance to turn it around?

I have not seen any improvements.

I don't know if we have any resident "egg-eater experts" around...

Not many egg-eater keepers to begin with, I might be the only one on the board with them.

but hopefully someone will be able to help you come to a reasonable and humane decision.

That is my hope

Thanks

About the possible bone damage... I would think that if they had been damaged enough to cause this problem, it would have been apparent immediately, or at least almost immediately. Sort of like people don't walk around on a broken leg for years and then suddenly develop a limp. I'm just guessing.

Not always the case. As I noted earlier, with chondros people advocate you never pop them because damage does occur that can lead to a kink appearing days, weeks, months or even years later. I think the same type of thing is going on here. I believe they may have sustained damage early on, maybe from the seller, maybe from me (I have been extra careful but I am not going to say I might not have done something wrong, but if I did I do not recall it) and it is only now beginning to manifest.

[dr del]

Hi,

Are you certain it isn't a neurological or musculature problem rather than the bones themselves?

Sorry to ask but it just occured to me looking at the way she moves - but I have zero experience of anything like this so figured I would ask.

If your tube feeding would it be possible to put the vitamin supplements we sprinkle onto crickets through it if you made the mixture slightly more liquid or thicker (say with AD )?

What mixture are you tube feeding them at the moment?

Just in case the answers help someone think of any more suggestions or something.


dr del

[asplundii]

Hi,

Are you certain it isn't a neurological or musculature problem rather than the bones themselves?

Pretty sure. I know it is not obvious in the vids but she has 3 significant kinks and a couple other spots that I think are developing into kinks.

Sorry to ask but it just occured to me looking at the way she moves - but I have zero experience of anything like this so figured I would ask.

I do not mind you asking. I want other opinions, anything could spark me down a line of thought I have not come to yet.

If your tube feeding would it be possible to put the vitamin supplements we sprinkle onto crickets through it if you made the mixture slightly more liquid or thicker (say with AD )?

Maybe, difficulty is that 1) vit mixes do not go into egg yolk that well the times I have tried and 2) the feeding tube is a pretty fine gauge so "thick" things gum it up.

What mixture are you tube feeding them at the moment?

When I tube, I use quail egg yolk.

Just in case the answers help someone think of any more suggestions or something.

Yes please. Any thoughts are appreciated

[dr del]

Hi,

Was thinking about the delicate bone problem while cleaning my male cornsnakes tank so he got used in a bit of an experiment;

Do you think any idea like this could be adapted to prevent spinal damage?

I know it wouldn't work for normal assist or force feeding because of the inability to expand but it might be ok for tube feeding maybe.



Oh and if you ever wondered what a seriously miffed cornsnake looks like close up here it is;



That was just a bit of spare aquarium tubing I had lying about but I think you could split it in two and make a hinge on one side ( silicon sealant and a rubber innertube from a bike tyre should work ) to simplify the process.

Sorry just a wierd idea that occured.


dr del

[Little B-Py]

Oh and if you ever wondered what a seriously miffed cornsnake looks like close up here it is;

That doesn't look like a happy corn. lol.