Honest opinions needed

[asplundii]

Okay, a little background here

A couple years ago I purchased a pair of egg-eaters. They were relatively new to the world which meant they either had to eat finch eggs (not easy to get your hands on) or be tube fed. The seller was tube feeding them. I had sporadic access to finch eggs and I have tube fed before so I felt comfortable taking them on.

Everything with them has been going well until recently. Over the last couple months I have begun to notice kinks popping up on them. And as the kinks have been popping up the locomotion on the animals has begun to deteriorate. Here are a couple vids from last night (please excuse the manic giggles of my 5 year old in the background), this is the female, she is the least impaired of the pair:

http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r...t=P2190009.flv

http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r...t=P2190010.flv

http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r...t=P2190011.flv


I have my suspicions as to what might be the cause of this but that is rather moot at this time since it can not be undone.


Anyways, my question to all of you (and please be brutally honest) is do I freeze them? My gut feeling is that I ought to but I want to be sure I am not just over reacting.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Little B-Py]

the videos didn't show...

[asplundii]

Try now

[Freakie_frog]

I am not familiar enough with this species to give any advice but I will say that it is very interesting..

Please let up know how it turns out

[Little B-Py]

They work now. I have no experience with them so this is interesting to me.

[JLC]

Oh man, that looks really sad. Have you taken them to a herp vet? I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, and you don't really give much info at all. It's impossible to say what should be done. Is there a chance the snakes could recover and live a normal, contented life? If so, is it worth it to you to try and rehabilitate them? Or are they doomed to a painful, slow deterioration? In the second vid, you can see how the other snake is just lying there belly-up for awhile, then oh-so-slowly manages to turn over.

IF the condition is permanent, then I can't see any other humane option but euthanasia. Not sure if "throwing them in the freezer" is the right way to do that, though.

[kc261]

Wow those videos are sad.

It sounds to me like you believe this is happening due to a nutritional deficiency when they were young? Sometimes things like that can be at least partially corrected by proper diet and/or supplementation later. I know nothing about this species, so really the only thing I can recommend is to get them to a good herp vet.

I'm curious about the other picture in your photobucket. It looks like a frog and a BP? What is going on in that picture??

[asplundii]

JLC,

I have discussed this with my vet but he does not have any experience with egg-eaters either so he is kind of shooting from the hip as well. I am going to be meeting with him over the weekend for him to look at them hands on.

What furthur info would you like? I am happy to provide.

I am more than willing to work on rehabing them if they can recover, it is just that I am just afraid that the way that the condition seems to be deteriorating as time passes may mean it is not going to be "fixable".

And yes I know "throwing them in the freezer" is not the right way to put a snake down. I was more using the phrase "freeze" as a euphamism for putting them down. If I need to put them down I'll have my vet do it.

[asplundii]

It sounds to me like you believe this is happening due to a nutritional deficiency when they were young?

Actually, I think what is happening may be more akin to why you do not pop baby chondros. These guys have really fragile bones. I knew this and I have been extremely careful when feeding/handling them. I do not know how the seller was handling them though and if he was not as aware of the fragile nature of their bones it would be easy to overlook the fact that you can not "clamp down" on them to keep them still while tubing. I think they may have sustained damage early on and it is only now becoming apparent.

I'm curious about the other picture in your photobucket. It looks like a frog and a BP? What is going on in that picture??

That is not my pic. It is a screen shot from another forum. I captured it for a "bad person" thread on another site. I can provide further details via PM if you like.

[JLC]

Glad to hear all that! I imagine there aren't very many folks out there with much egg-eater experience, though.

Info that might help puzzle out whether or not there is a chance for recovery:

1. What do you THINK caused this? (You said you had an idea)

2. When did you first notice evidence of something wrong?

3. Did that something appear in both snakes at the same time? Or first one and then later the other?

4. How fast have they "gone downhill" since you first noticed something wrong?

5. How much worse is the second one than the one shown in the vids?

6. What steps have you taken to try and correct the issue? (ie: extra feedings...calcium supplements...change in diet...medicines...change in environment?)

7. Did your vet have any advice to offer at all? If so, what was it and were you able to follow it?

8. Have you seen any signs of improvement at all that might indicate a chance to turn it around?

I don't know if we have any resident "egg-eater experts" around...but hopefully someone will be able to help you come to a reasonable and humane decision.