Keeping Pythons in Racks/Tubs

[herpshrink]

Hi all,

I am new to the snake world. Currently, I am researching as much as possible about snales. I keep pdf's in vivariums and have had my share of aquariums.
What I am about to ask is not coming from a critical place nor is it a PETA tirade...I am just intersted in how content or happy captive bred snakes are in tubs. Do they prefer more of a naturalistic vivarium?


Thanks,

Andy

[Spaniard]

Its hard to say because snakes do not give as much feedback as other animals may. You just have to go by the basics. Will my snake eat regularly? Is my snake excreting wastes normally? Does my snake shed perfect? Is my snake constantly roaming? These are all questions you should be asking yourself when trying to figure out whether a BP and its enclosure are working.

Having experienced both glass and rack set ups I can tell you that I think my snakes are doing much better since being in a rack set up. Not to mention how much easier it is to maintain a clean environment for them.

[JLC]

I've seen first-hand how they thrive in tubs. I've also heard from plenty of people about them thriving in vivariums as well. Really, it comes down to what the keeper is best able to maintain. They want security, proper temps, and dinner served on a regular, consistent basis. If you can do that with glass tanks and enjoy the physical effort it takes to maintain the tanks...then more power to ya. Personally, I find the convenience of tubs makes it far more likely that my snakes (the very few that I personally keep) will have all their needs met.

One personal, anecdotal story. When I bought my first ball python, she'd spent the first year of her life in the breeder's tub/rack. When she arrived at my house, I had a glass tank all set up for her. She quit eating and wouldn't eat for weeks and weeks, no matter what I did to make sure the tank was "secure" or the heroic efforts I went to to make sure temps and humidity stayed spot-on. Once I gave up on the pretty vivarium and put her in a tub with paper substrate, she began eating like no tomorrow. And the icing on the cake for me was how much easier it was to maintain proper humidity and temps in the tub compared to the glass tank. Not to mention how much easier to clean a light-weight tub is!

[blackcrystal22]

I've seen first-hand how they thrive in tubs. I've also heard from plenty of people about them thriving in vivariums as well. Really, it comes down to what the keeper is best able to maintain. They want security, proper temps, and dinner served on a regular, consistent basis. If you can do that with glass tanks and enjoy the physical effort it takes to maintain the tanks...then more power to ya. Personally, I find the convenience of tubs makes it far more likely that my snakes (the very few that I personally keep) will have all their needs met.

One personal, anecdotal story. When I bought my first ball python, she'd spent the first year of her life in the breeder's tub/rack. When she arrived at my house, I had a glass tank all set up for her. She quit eating and wouldn't eat for weeks and weeks, no matter what I did to make sure the tank was "secure" or the heroic efforts I went to to make sure temps and humidity stayed spot-on. Once I gave up on the pretty vivarium and put her in a tub with paper substrate, she began eating like no tomorrow. And the icing on the cake for me was how much easier it was to maintain proper humidity and temps in the tub compared to the glass tank. Not to mention how much easier to clean a light-weight tub is!

Same thing happened to me.
Maybe not all snakes are the same, but breeders are capable of growing up thriving animals and getting them to breed in a tub, which means they have to be comfortable, especially with a picky species like ball pythons.
All of my snakes thrive more and noticeably have a better appetite and attitude in a tub/rack system.

Also, I don't think vivariums are more naturalistic. Ball pythons thrive in Savannah-esk areas in Africa. Adding palm tree plants, some bark substrate, and a couple hides isn't their natural environment.
They also prefer to spend most of their lives in a warm, snug, dark, tight burrow. I think a tub reenacts this more than any vivarium does.

[FlowRock]

Well, my ball (like my baby corn and the baby boa) lives in a tub, eats well, pooes regulary and looks fine... so I think he is doing well.
I have to say that I am glad, that I began my research on keeping snakes on US pages, because over here in germany most people belong to the "huge cage, natural enviorment, whatever side" and in the german forums you will find one third threads like "Look at my nice huge ball vivarium" and two third threads like "Help, my ball wont eat", mostly by the same people...... who on the other hand will rip you apart, if you tell them you keep your ball in a tub...

[West Coast Jungle]

Since this is in the general ball python forum I assume your question is aimed at them. As far as Ball Pythons are concerned I would say they do quite well in tubs or smaller enclosures. They are a very secretive snake which enjoy alot of security and privacy as it would in the wild in some little burrow somewhere. Now other species of snakes(False water cobra for example) may enjoy and do much better in a larger enclosure or tank.

I have been keeping herps for over 30 years and the biggest problem I have seen is the pet industry generalizing husbandry to cover all snakes or reptiles for that matter. The one size fits all mentality. I think when obtaining an animal/pet you should study the specific species and its requirements not the two minute scoop from the petstore, some will sell you UV lights and whatever else they can charge you.

Asking questions from experienced keepers is the best way. If I had a dollar for everytime I heard a husbandry problem followed by "but the guy at the petstore said" I would have many more snakes.

I compliment you in taking the time and effort to find out for yourself

[AaronP]

I've actually had better luck with tubs then I have with tanks. I have a borneo that is about 11 months old. I've had her 9 of those months. She's always been a good eater and is actually my favorite snake, but I had humidity problems in her glass enclosure which caused some weird eye "dimpling". I spoke with Kara of BloodPythons.com and she recommended putting her in a plastic tub.

I didn't really have a issue with this cause most of my other animals were already in tubs so I made the switch and sure enough the dimpling subsided and actually I've noticed that she spends more time outside of her hide now because the heat is more evenly distributed in her tub so she doesn't have to stay in just to be comfortable.

But I agree with JLC, if you're up to the task of maintaining a vivarium and your animal thrives in it, then go for it.

By the way I keep all my ball pythons in tubs and they do very well, some don't even have hides cause they don't use them.

[MarkS]

Like Raul said you really can't overly gereralize for all snake species, you have to take each one on their own needs. However, a few generalizations I've found to be mostly true is that Larger species, arboreal species or active species do better in cages whereas smaller more secretive and less active species do better in rack systems. I keep most of my snakes in racks with the exceptions of my carpet pythons and burmese pythons which I keep in cages. One caveat I would like to add for ball pythons, I prefer a longer tub like the sterlite model 1960 or the Iris model CB-70. Not necessarily for the size, but because you have a much wider temperature gradient with the longer tubs.

[ColinWeaver]

If your ball python escapes from its enclosure what will it do? It will usually find the smallest little crevice possible, jam itself into it and stay there for a long time. Because being loose is giving the animal the ability to make its own decisions about where it will go I think its reasonably safe to say (as many other here have already done) that ball pythons are quite content (and even prefer) being in smaller confines. When on the loose they tend to choose them on their own. Every indication is that they derive a sense of safety and security from small cramped quarters. As humans we tend to anthropomorphise the creatures in our lives. We tend to like spacious accommodations so we convey that desire to our animals. Doing so can lead us, good intentions and all, to create an environment that is stressful and/or harmful to the animal.

[juddb]

However, a few generalizations I've found to be mostly true is that Larger species, arboreal species or active species do better in cages whereas smaller more secretive and less active species do better in rack systems. I keep most of my snakes in racks with the exceptions of my carpet pythons and burmese pythons which I keep in cages. One caveat I would like to add for ball pythons, I prefer a longer tub like the sterlite model 1960 or the Iris model CB-70. Not necessarily for the size, but because you have a much wider temperature gradient with the longer tubs.

Actually, i successfully keep adult chondro's in tubs! Large tubs of course, but they do pretty well. I dont have one snake in a "cage", only tubs, personally i believe my snakes prefer them over cages.