Blue Eyed Leucistics - question regarding BluEL offspring

[Ssthisto]

Mojave, Lessers, Russo het lucy/high yellow/lemon line, butters when combined with each other or with themselves can produce a super "lesser complex" blue eyed lucy.
A phantom combined with lesser has been proven to produce a BEL as well.
The homozygous form of the phantom is not a typical BEL.
The "hidden gene"/"Platty gene" plays no part in the creation of BELs.

I'd personally argue that a homozygous Mojave isn't a BluEL either - almost but not quite. As for the Platty hidden gene, it certainly appears allelic to the rest based on the breeding results of Platties and Butter Daddies; just because it doesn't make a white snake when combined with the other alleles on the locus doesn't mean it's not the same gene

But then that's coming from a background in mouse colour genetics and seeing the different visual outputs from the six different traits on the Agouti locus (in order from most dominant to least: Dominant Viable Yellow, Dominant Lethal Yellow, Agouti, Tan, Self, Extreme Non-Agouti) - any of the six can be combined to get various visual outputs. A het-Tan / het-Extreme Non-Agouti looks totally different to a het-Agouti /het-Dominant Lethal Yellow.

As for normal-looking animals... I must admit that unless you catch him right after a shed, my Fire looks no different to a light, bright normal *unless you know the specific markers to look for* and my Pastel is not amazingly different to a CF baby we got from an import last year that is probably a light, bright normal too.

[AaronP]

straight from NERD... no they don't look normal, which is why its co-dom, you do know that albino is a recessive trait right?


Genetics
Co-dominant

The Russo het Leucistic is named for Vin Russo @ Cutting Edge Herp, who produced stunning, clean white Blue-Eyed Leucistics from breeding his "high yellow lemon" ball pythons together. To avoid confusion with other mutations sharing similar names, this particular bloodline has been dubbed the Russo het Leucistic. These are beautiful ball pythons, with bright pigmentation, white highlights & an unmarked belly. Russo het Leucistics often exhibit busy lateral patterns with a donut or "keyhole" shape. The resulting Blue-Eyed Leucistics from this line are extremely clean, bright white with minimal (if any) markings. Subsequent breedings have determined the Russo hets to be compatible with Mojaves in producing Blue-Eyed Leucies.

I am aware that Albino is a recessive Gene, but the principles of passing on the gene that makes the homozygous form is no different.

You Breed a Mojave to a Normal, 50% chance of getting Mojave.
You breed a Het Albino to a Normal, 50% Chance that one of the babies will be Het Albino.

The only difference is that Mojave is a Visual Het of it's Super Form, Albinos don't have a Visual Het.

What's does a Albino, Hypo, Piebald, BEL, Super Phantom, and Ivory have in common? They're all Homozygous forms of their Heterozygous counter parts. There is a reason why people say that Yellow Bellies are Het Ivory. There are "Normals" out there that are Het Luecistic, Vin Russo is just a poor example that I used. I'll dig up the RR show and cut out the clip for you guys to listen to when I get a chance tonight/tomorrow night.

[Ssthisto]

But a Blue-Eyed Leucistic doesn't HAVE to be a homozygous animal.

It can be het Mojave, het Lesser - it's heterozygous for two different alleles, even if there's no "normal-wildtype" gene at the locus.

I would like to see a citation for a visual normal animal that is heterozygous for a gene that will produce Blue-eyed Leucistics... that sounds interesting!

[AaronP]

But a Blue-Eyed Leucistic doesn't HAVE to be a homozygous animal.

Nope it doesn't. Which, like any combo, it's very important to know whom it's parents were.

[RandyRemington]

There seems to be a whole spectrum of apperences for mutations in this allele complex paired with normal. From lesser to Vin Russo (which while subtle is reported to be an identifialbe morph) to RDR's hidden that makes Platy combined with lesser some are obvious morphs to anyone but it might be that only the hidden is compleatly normal looking. Marshall Van Thorre bred a girl he purchased as a normal and produced BEL but she had enough markers for him to suspect she was in the complex to pair for BEL in the first place. I know I'm pairing my ch clear belly/cyclops alien girls with my Mojave just in case.

[Egapal]

What's does a Albino, Hypo, Piebald, BEL, Super Phantom, and Ivory have in common? They're all Homozygous forms of their Heterozygous counter parts. There is a reason why people say that Yellow Bellies are Het Ivory. There are "Normals" out there that are Het Luecistic, Vin Russo is just a poor example that I used. I'll dig up the RR show and cut out the clip for you guys to listen to when I get a chance tonight/tomorrow night.

a BEL is not a homonzygous form of a heterozygous couter part. A BEL is a super form created from the presence of two co-domenant genes of the same allele. Some of those co-domenant animals look more like normals than others but non are visually normal and therefor they are not het but codom. Please explain to me how a BEL created from a lesser and mojava is homozygous.

[Hyper Joe]

Hello

I have a quick question for those of you who have *adult* Blue-Eyed Leucistics that you have produced offspring from.

What morphs were your babies - and what were the "ingredients" in your BluEL?

I'm particularly interested to know if anyone has bred a Blue-eyed Leucistic to normals or other animals that do NOT produce BluEL offspring in any combination - and whether you ever hatched out normal offspring from that pairing.

Getting back to the topic.
If you breed a normal to a BEL you should only get the codom morphs - Mojave, Lesser, Butter and Russo Line Het Leucistic, yellowbellies? do we want to include yellowbellies/ivories as another white snake just "dingier"(is that a word)? You should not get any BEL.

The key thing is you breed it to a normal BP. If the BP looks normal to the untrained eye but is actually a morph then you can get BEL.

Co-dominant/incomplete dominant is a visual phenotype. Meaning there is a visual difference in the snakes that carry the gene. Some are just not as obvious.

[AaronP]

a BEL is not a homonzygous form of a heterozygous couter part. A BEL is a super form created from the presence of two co-domenant genes of the same allele. Some of those co-domenant animals look more like normals than others but non are visually normal and therefor they are not het but codom. Please explain to me how a BEL created from a lesser and mojava is homozygous.

Super = Homozygous.

[Egapal]

Super = Homozygous.

Not necessarily. I know some people hate wikipedia but I see no fault here so I am stealing it.

The words homozygous, heterozygous, and hemizygous are used to describe the genotype of a diploid organism at a single locus on the DNA. Simply stated, homozygous describes a genotype consisting of two identical alleles at a given locus, heterozygous describes a genotype consisting of two different alleles at a locus

Now if you had a lesser x mojave BEL then the single locus responsible for the super form has one mojave gene and one lesser gene. This would be a double het at a single locus, not a homozygous. If you disagree please give me a reason not a simple "Super = Homozygous". Where as this is most commonly the case I think its a gross simplification when discussing the genetics of a BEL

[AaronP]

Not necessarily. I know some people hate wikipedia but I see no fault here so I am stealing it.

The words homozygous, heterozygous, and hemizygous are used to describe the genotype of a diploid organism at a single locus on the DNA. Simply stated, homozygous describes a genotype consisting of two identical alleles at a given locus, heterozygous describes a genotype consisting of two different alleles at a locus

Now if you had a lesser x mojave BEL then the single locus responsible for the super form has one mojave gene and one lesser gene. This would be a double het at a single locus, not a homozygous. If you disagree please give me a reason not a simple "Super = Homozygous". Where as this is most commonly the case I think its a gross simplification when discussing the genetics of a BEL

When referring to a "Super" form a Super is the Homozygous form of a mutation.

Calling a BEL a Homozygous animal is only correct when both parents were the same mutation (Mojave to Mojave, Lesser to Lesser, etc etc).

A Mojave to a Lesser = BEL is simply a combo, unfortunately (to some) the combo results in a white snake. BEL is just a general name for a ball python that is lacking all pigment to the point where it is white and its eyes appear to be blue.