Blue Eyed Leucistics - question regarding BluEL offspring

[Ssthisto]

Hello

I have a quick question for those of you who have *adult* Blue-Eyed Leucistics that you have produced offspring from.

What morphs were your babies - and what were the "ingredients" in your BluEL?

I'm particularly interested to know if anyone has bred a Blue-eyed Leucistic to normals or other animals that do NOT produce BluEL offspring in any combination - and whether you ever hatched out normal offspring from that pairing.

[Egapal]

Hello

I have a quick question for those of you who have *adult* Blue-Eyed Leucistics that you have produced offspring from.

What morphs were your babies - and what were the "ingredients" in your BluEL?

I'm particularly interested to know if anyone has bred a Blue-eyed Leucistic to normals or other animals that do NOT produce BluEL offspring in any combination - and whether you ever hatched out normal offspring from that pairing.

Thats not possible. A blue-eyed leucistic is produced from (if I remember correctly) a pairing of lesser, mojave, or lemon. With lesser x lesser being the purest white. If you breed a blue-eyed leucistic to a normal you will get codominant offspring of the same kind used to make the BEL in the first place. So a lesser x lesser BEL will produce all lessers.

[Hyper Joe]

Thats not possible. A blue-eyed leucistic is produced from (if I remember correctly) a pairing of lesser, mojave, or lemon. With lesser x lesser being the purest white. If you breed a blue-eyed leucistic to a normal you will get codominant offspring of the same kind used to make the BEL in the first place. So a lesser x lesser BEL will produce all lessers.

Just a minor correction. "..... a pairing of lesser, mojave, or lemon.." It is not a lemon. You probably meant butter. These produce BELs.

Any combination of those should produce BEL and whatever else you bred with it. If you breed a BEL to a normal you will just get lessers or Mojaves or Butters and no BEL.

[Ssthisto]

Thats not possible. A blue-eyed leucistic is produced from (if I remember correctly) a pairing of lesser, mojave, or lemon. With lesser x lesser being the purest white. If you breed a blue-eyed leucistic to a normal you will get codominant offspring of the same kind used to make the BEL in the first place. So a lesser x lesser BEL will produce all lessers.

That's what I had thought, but I would like people who have actually bred a BluEL to a non-"Whitesnake complex" morph to respond with the actual clutch tallies if possible.

Even one poster who hatched out a normal proves that at least the two genes that make up their BluEL are not allelic.

And Hyper Joe, aren't Russo het Leucistics also called "Russo Lemon Lines" ?

As far as I'm aware, the following appear to act allelic:

Lesser
Mojave
Butter
Phantom
Russo Lemon Line het Leucistic
"Mystery Dilute" (AKA "special", "crystal" or "hidden" depending on who you talk to)

[Lateralus_Love]

You can't get normals though...the BEL is a super of the two parent snakes, be it Lesser x Lesser, Mojo x Mojo, Butter x Butter, or any mixture of the three. Since each parent snake gives off one gene a piece, from a BEL x Normal pair you will get (Lets say the BEL is Lesser x Lesser) all Lessers, because of the fact that the BEL is technically a Super Lesser and therefore can only give Lesser genes. And the Lesser morph is Codom so even one Lesser allele will throw visual offspring. If it were a Lesser x Mojo, half the offspring, statistically speaking, should be Lessers, the other half Mojaves. Same with Mojo x Butter. Same with Lesser x Butter, etc etc

[Ssthisto]

So it's absolutely 100% no doubt about it PROVEN that Lesser, Mojave, Butter, Russo het Leucistic, Mystery Dilute and Phantom are all allelic?

[Egapal]

Just a minor correction. "..... a pairing of lesser, mojave, or lemon.." It is not a lemon. You probably meant butter. These produce BELs.

Any combination of those should produce BEL and whatever else you bred with it. If you breed a BEL to a normal you will just get lessers or Mojaves or Butters and no BEL.

Thanks, Yeah that was lazy of me. I could have easily looked it up. Thanks for the correction.

So it's absolutely 100% no doubt about it PROVEN that Lesser, Mojave, Butter, Russo het Leucistic, Mystery Dilute and Phantom are all allelic?

Yeah this is proven already.

[Wh00h0069]

A BEL is a super form, so it is impossible to produce normal offspring when bred to anything. It is possible to produce a BEL from any of the pairings or combo pairings of the following: lesser, butter, mojave, and Russo het Lucy. I do not know enough about the "special" or "crystal" morphs to say if they are compatible. I have never heard of a Russo Lemon het Lucy line. From what I understand the "Lemon" refers to N.E.R.D.'s lemon pastels. BTW, you do not have to breed these to understand the genetics. All of the above are Codoms, and it is a well known fact that a super form of a codom will yeild all Codom offspring when bred.

Hope this helps.

[Ssthisto]

Interesting. There are high-end-morph breeders over here in the UK that swear blind that a visual Lesser can be a 50% possible het "Hidden"* and that a Blue-Eyed Leucistic can produce BluELs when bred to a normal** (I believe this discussion's been brought up once before, which is why I phrased it as "has anyone ever produced a normal out of a BluEL parent")... I disagreed, but was told that it's "just like a Bumblebee".

I'm glad to hear it's been proven that the traits are allelic and I'm not losing my marbles - has this been proven with ALL of the possible combinations, or is it just the Lesser / Mojave, Lesser / Phantom, Lesser / Hidden-mystery-dilute-special-daddy combinations, and everyone's extrapolating the rest?

* If the "hidden" gene that makes a Woma Lesser into a "Soul Sucker" is the same gene that makes a Lesser into a Platinum, it isn't possible for a Lesser to carry it invisibly - it's either a Lesser OR it's a Lesser / Hidden - AKA "Platty Daddy".

** I'd argued that Mojave and Lesser are allelic; they'd argued they're two separate morphs on two separate gene pairs.

[AaronP]

It is possible to get normal's from a BEL breeding. If one of the BEL's parents was a normal carrying the lucy gene, which does happen, what do you think a Vin Russo Het Lucy is? They're really just normals that are Het BEL.