problem with w.c. gravids from africa!!!!!!!

[SUPERBALLS]

ok
so im not sure if i am the only one but im really starting to get a problem with all of these wild caught gravid females being whored out. First of all we have enough ball pythons in captivity as it is, and yes i know we wouldnt have all the great morphs today if we didnt take some from the wild to begin with, but it was not as bad as it is now, taking snakes from the wild that have a potential to be a new morph to breed and return is one thing, taking pregent mothers is another, we need to keep the population of balls in the wild good for the animals and for our hobby, i know it sounds silly now but some day these animals could become endangerd and no one will be able to have them, plus its starting to show people are starting to go in the wrong direction with these aniamls, yes its a fun hobby and yes theres money to be made but theres a point when its exploitation, they are still living creatures, and to boot these people are selling them for $70 a peice, i dont know but my opionion is it needs to stop and we need to just work with the animals we have, there are still thounds of morphs that have yet to be done just in our own collections

[nevohraalnavnoj]

Tracy Barker brought this up in her reptile radio. I also see no reason to be importing WC gravids from Africa, and I try to avoid buying from people who import them (not just the WC gravids, but in general). In the end, isn't this all about education and conservation?

JonV

[SUPERBALLS]

Tracy Barker brought this up in her reptile radio. I also see no reason to be importing WC gravids from Africa, and I try to avoid buying from people who import them (not just the WC gravids, but in general). In the end, isn't this all about education and conservation?

JonV

absolutly, did Tracey Barker agree

[mainbutter]

In the end, isn't this all about education and conservation?

JonV

Not for me.. It's a hobby, a way to keep myself busy and enjoy life, and enjoying having some animal companionship. Granted, my herps aren't exactly dog or cat companionship, but they're what I have time for, and I really do get quite a bit of general life satisfaction and happiness out of taking care of an animal as it grows up.

I'm sure there are dozens of reasons why people are into herps, education and conservation among them, but those reasons aren't why I'm into it. However, I do love the fact that there are so many people in the education and conservation camp when it comes to reptiles

[nevohraalnavnoj]

Not for me.. It's a hobby, a way to keep myself busy and enjoy life, and enjoying having some animal companionship. Granted, my herps aren't exactly dog or cat companionship, but they're what I have time for, and I really do get quite a bit of general life satisfaction and happiness out of taking care of an animal as it grows up.

I'm sure there are dozens of reasons why people are into herps, education and conservation among them, but those reasons aren't why I'm into it. However, I do love the fact that there are so many people in the education and conservation camp when it comes to reptiles

I like having hobbies too, Jiu-jitsu for example, but it doesn't come at the cost of plucking...gravid Brazilian's from Brazil (analogy, lol?)... and importing them to the US.

JonV

[Shadera]

I think we're all grown up enough to respect one another's opinions.

I'm all for importing captive hatch babies, but I don't agree with dragging in gravid mothers. These animals usually do poorly in captivity, despite what the sellers claim, and it's just not worth watching an animal waste away for a few normal babies.

[Anarchy]

dude i agree i always thought of that too like whats going to happen to the population of balls in africa its going to be depleted if we dont do something about it theyll be gone pretty soon and specially if they are importing gravids from africa thats just bad!

[wolfy-hound]

First, the populations in Africa have not been shown to have dropped at all. There's no studys that say that, and in fact the only studies done seem to indicate there are more ball pythons than before.
All the people that I have spoken with that ACTUALLY BOUGHT A GRAVID have said the animal laid the eggs, and began eating afterwards. I'm sure some don't make it, but you'd need a actual percentage, to compare with a percentage of CBB snakes that also might die for various reasons.
I don't see any real reason to import gravid ball pythons, myself. But if you're going to argue against it, you need to use facts and figures, or morals.
There are NOT enough ball pythons in captivity, or no one would buy the imports(and also wouldn't buy CBB for that matter). There is a market for ball pythons, and unless it's filled up with our CBB snakes, they will look to imports to fill it instead.
Eliminate the need for imports, and the market for imports will dry up. Of course.. that means the pythons will be harvested for meat and skins instead.. but that's another whole issue to address.

[Wh00h0069]

Your are not alone. I will not do business with anyone who deals with w.c. or c.h. ball pythons!!

[ColinWeaver]

Tracy Barker brought this up in her reptile radio. I also see no reason to be importing WC gravids from Africa, and I try to avoid buying from people who import them (not just the WC gravids, but in general). In the end, isn't this all about education and conservation?

JonV

JonV,

For Tracy Barker to take a stand against the importation of ball pythons skews toward hypocritical. Her company has some of the most unusual ball pythons out there and they produced many of them FIRST. Think she was first because she got real lucky on a CB normal X CB normal? Nope, she participated in the plucking just like everyone else. And now that she has her edge, her advantage, in the ball morph BUSINESS she decides to oppose the same practice that helped catapult her to where she is? That's just too convenient.

The buying of gravids is a shadow of what it used to be. For that reason the practice will reduce on its own. There is little money to be made when you consider their cost to the value of the likely offspring. So that means that the imported gravid can now be distilled into two different things:

1. A lottery ticket. Strange things have been known to pop out of w.c. gravid eggs. Maybe, just maybe, the one you get is a winner!
2. Egg Practice. Morbid though it sounds I have heard of many people [new to breeding] using gravids as 'practice' for the real deal. Their logic is that they can gain experience with egg incubation/hatching without the eggs being from their prized animals.

I wouldn't mind seeing a decrease in the number of animals imported (baby balls in particular) but I'm more pragmatic in my reasoning: fewer baby ball pythons being pumped into the marketplace pushes the supply & demand equation back in favor of the breeder (as opposed to the importer/wholesaler). The price of ball pythons will begin to rise if we stop importing so many from the wild.

Regards,