Pine Shavings-The Real Deal.

[ThyTempest]

Alright, after a couple different searches and several pages of search responses, I decided it would just be best to try and get all the information in one area, especially since the info is either not out there, or just takes too long to find.

Pine and cedar are generally frowned upon as rodent (or herp for that matter) substrates because of the phenols in the wood. I consider cedar to be a no-go no matter how it is treated, but I have heard of a lot of people that use various forms of pine effectively, and by effectively I mean safely.

So, the buzzword seems to be either "kiln dried" or "milled". Milling seems to have 3 grades, single, double and triple, with the higher millings meaning more refining which leads to a better but more expensive product. Is this correct, or is some info just misleading, and kiln dried is what to look for, and the milling buzzword just migrated over to pine from cypress incorrectly?

If someone experienced with all of this could clear up the issues with how the products are labeled, hopefully with a relative pricetag and whether or not they should be considered safe for rodents (and I am only talking rodents), I think the whole community would appreciate it. Also, good places to get acceptable forms of pine, if they exist, would be a good bonus.

The reason for all of this? Cost effectiveness vs odor control. I never really got any experience using pine shavings, since right after I bought the first bag I found out that it was probably not good for our rodents, so I switched them to aspen. I have since switched to pine pellets, which I have mixed feelings about. I hate the dust, the smell control better than aspen, but if pine is similar odor-wise to aspen at a quarter of the cost, then maybe it would be more cost efficient to use the pine. The result of this would just mean more frequent cleanings to maintain a similar odor control when compared to the pine pellets. Another option is to mix the pine pellets in with a suitable pine shaving for even more odor control without sacrificing too much potential savings.

Thanks,
Austin

[RichardA]

I have used pine for my rodents for years.

[littleindiangirl]

Kiln dried refers to actually drying the oils out of the wood, making it less aromatic. Milling is just how much they chop it up.

If you have to use pine, use a good quality kiln dried pine. Premier Pets (sold at TSC) makes a kiln dried pine that does not have much odor, and it's very light and fluffy. Some bargain or generic brands are incredibly strong smelling and actually feel damp when the bag is opened new. Try to avoid those.

Pine, since it's a soft wood, does emit phenols, which have been shown to irritate the lungs of rats. But on the flip side, a very dusty aspen can irritate it just as much as well.

The studies into the effects of phenols on small animals is mostly due to concern over elevated enzyme levels in the liver, which can cause liver disease and failure. However, I'm not dumb to the fact that many labs use a lab quality kiln dried pine like what is available from harlan teklad.

My personal feelings are to stay away from pine unless it is a high quality kiln dried shaving, where if you were to take a handful and stick your nose in it, you can't smell very much.


BTW, pellets with shavings over the top helps tremendously in keeping dust down. I used to keep my girls on break in a large cage, and they kicked up a TON of dust that did land on everything; but with shavings over top, the dust was kept to a very considerable minimum, but the trade off is more odor.

[ThyTempest]

Kiln dried refers to actually drying the oils out of the wood, making it less aromatic. Milling is just how much they chop it up.

If you have to use pine, use a good quality kiln dried pine. Premier Pets (sold at TSC) makes a kiln dried pine that does not have much odor, and it's very light and fluffy. Some bargain or generic brands are incredibly strong smelling and actually feel damp when the bag is opened new. Try to avoid those.

Pine, since it's a soft wood, does emit phenols, which have been shown to irritate the lungs of rats. But on the flip side, a very dusty aspen can irritate it just as much as well.

The studies into the effects of phenols on small animals is mostly due to concern over elevated enzyme levels in the liver, which can cause liver disease and failure. However, I'm not dumb to the fact that many labs use a lab quality kiln dried pine like what is available from harlan teklad.

My personal feelings are to stay away from pine unless it is a high quality kiln dried shaving, where if you were to take a handful and stick your nose in it, you can't smell very much.


BTW, pellets with shavings over the top helps tremendously in keeping dust down. I used to keep my girls on break in a large cage, and they kicked up a TON of dust that did land on everything; but with shavings over top, the dust was kept to a very considerable minimum, but the trade off is more odor.

I think I am going to get a bag of nice pine and just give it a shot. Thanks for the consolidated info Connie.

[punyhuman07]

we use pine on are rodents also with no problems

[rabernet]

I use pine pellets (woody pet) for my rodents and the nursing moms with babies 2 weeks and under are put on pine shavings from Petsmart - it's very light and fluffy. If I don't put the newborns on shavings, I lose them. Was talking to someone who said that's because on pine pellets, they can't generate enough warmth and get too cold. Seems to make sense - they do fine after they are two weeks old on just pine pellets.

[Peter Williams]

I have used pine meant for horse stalls for over 2 years with no problems.

[Freakie_frog]

I go through 30 compressed cubic feet of kiln dried double milled Suncoast brand pine a month. I have for the last 2 years I have not noticed any issues with my rats what so ever. I birth 150-250 rats a month on the stuff and never see any problems.

[kc261]

Kiln dried refers to actually drying the oils out of the wood, making it less aromatic. Milling is just how much they chop it up.

If you have to use pine, use a good quality kiln dried pine. Premier Pets (sold at TSC) makes a kiln dried pine that does not have much odor, and it's very light and fluffy. Some bargain or generic brands are incredibly strong smelling and actually feel damp when the bag is opened new. Try to avoid those.

Pine, since it's a soft wood, does emit phenols, which have been shown to irritate the lungs of rats. But on the flip side, a very dusty aspen can irritate it just as much as well.

The studies into the effects of phenols on small animals is mostly due to concern over elevated enzyme levels in the liver, which can cause liver disease and failure. However, I'm not dumb to the fact that many labs use a lab quality kiln dried pine like what is available from harlan teklad.

My personal feelings are to stay away from pine unless it is a high quality kiln dried shaving, where if you were to take a handful and stick your nose in it, you can't smell very much.


BTW, pellets with shavings over the top helps tremendously in keeping dust down. I used to keep my girls on break in a large cage, and they kicked up a TON of dust that did land on everything; but with shavings over top, the dust was kept to a very considerable minimum, but the trade off is more odor.

Great post, as always! You started with exactly what I was going to say, but of course you have more personal experience to add to it than I do.

[Beardedragon]

Ive used pine for a while with no problems.