WC Gravids?

[nixer]

Brian has strict rules about that. Only CBB animals are allowed in his show. Though I'm sure some people could lie and say that their WC or CH snake is CBB.

i wasnt refering to the show im refering to him period.
his store is well... is that dead dried up frog still stuck in the window!

[Wh00h0069]

Um, not sure where you are buying your snakes, but this pretty much cuts out the big guys.



Is snake breeding your career? if so, then maybe you should invest some real bucks into some crazy morph that has a chance at a return.

And if it were illegal to import ball pythons, then there would be NONE in captivity, it's a double edged sword.

Yes it does cut out most of the big guys, whom I do not buy from. I support the smaller guys who do not deal with ch or wc animals.

No snake breeding is not my career. I do this as a side business. I have invested in some pretty expensive morphs. I have also had to sell off most, and eventually all, of my normal females, so that I do not produce many normals. I will eventually only be breeding morph to morph. It is not worth it to me to spend all year taking care of and feeding a normal female when in the end my return is $50 off of her entire clutch of normal babies. Now if it was illegal to import, then the price per hatchling would go way up, so it would be worth it to keep and breed these females.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is that I will not support these market crashers!

[janeothejungle]

Is snake breeding your career? if so, then maybe you should invest some real bucks into some crazy morph that has a chance at a return.

And yet you would still end up producing norms, or hets.

And if it were illegal to import ball pythons, then there would be NONE in captivity, it's a double edged sword.

Really? So if we stopped importing today all my snakes would disappear with a poof? NO. Wake up. At what point is enough enough? If we already have a sustainable gene pool within a captive population, why keep importing in such huge numbers? I'm not against all importing, I AM against the sheer greed that has been going on for the last few years as more and more middlemen try and make a quick buck.


~Kat

[nixer]

Really? So if we stopped importing today all my snakes would disappear with a poof? NO. Wake up. At what point is enough enough? If we already have a sustainable gene pool within a captive population, why keep importing in such huge numbers? I'm not against all importing, I AM against the sheer greed that has been going on for the last few years as more and more middlemen try and make a quick buck.


~Kat

i think you kinda miss read that kat i think he was getting at if it was illegal from the get go there wouldnt be any here

[janeothejungle]

i think you kinda miss read that kat i think he was getting at if it was illegal from the get go there wouldnt be any here

Yet the majority of people in the thread are advocating for the reduction and regulation of, not a ban on importation.

~Kat

[nixer]

Yes it does cut out most of the big guys, whom I do not buy from. I support the smaller guys who do not deal with ch or wc animals.

No snake breeding is not my career. I do this as a side business. I have invested in some pretty expensive morphs. I have also had to sell off most, and eventually all, of my normal females, so that I do not produce many normals. I will eventually only be breeding morph to morph. It is not worth it to me to spend all year taking care of and feeding a normal female when in the end my return is $50 off of her entire clutch of normal babies. Now if it was illegal to import, then the price per hatchling would go way up, so it would be worth it to keep and breed these females.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is that I will not support these market crashers!

which smaller guys are you refering to?

morph to morph is a smart business move for a small guy.
i dont think the price would go up. the point here is that at one time someone lowered the price to that and thats where is will stay jsut like everything else will.

market crashers is a fine line. last time i checked most of the ppl crashing prices are the ones on KS that have maybe a handfull of snakes.
ive seen ppl come to shows with a table full of pastels and by the end of the day they are 100$ tops for females and thats a small time breeder.

technically if you look at it how many ppl in this thread have ever sold a snake for big guy prices? probally none but would that be price crashing when your selling something less than what everyone else does for a profit.

what would you call nerd or bhb or anyone else that charge alot more for a snake that any number of breeders? are they then ripping ppl off or are they trying to set prices.

[Shrap]

I sold a couple of Pieds this year for $2000....

... and a few more in the 1600-1900 range.

[Albey]

Really? So if we stopped importing today all my snakes would disappear with a poof? NO. Wake up. At what point is enough enough? If we already have a sustainable gene pool within a captive population, why keep importing in such huge numbers? I'm not against all importing, I AM against the sheer greed that has been going on for the last few years as more and more middlemen try and make a quick buck.


~Kat

I am with Kat on this. Leopard geckos used to by imported into this country in the thousands every year. They haven’t been imported in about ten years now. I sure haven’t seen a shortage of Leopard Geckos lately or any shortage of very cool morphs to choose from. It is time to limit the importation of Captive Hatched and Wild Caught Ball Pythons now. As far as selling Wild Caught Gravid Females goes, only the truly worse of the worse would offer those.

Buy Captive Bred and Born from a real breeder and just say NO to a Flipper now!

[wilomn]

I wonder if the conflict in the native habitat of leopard geckos might have something to do with their not being imported at the moment.

Also, one thing a lot, ok, ALL of the posters to date have missed, is that it isn't JUST us, here in the USA, that are involved in selling ball pythons for money. You people are awfully egocentric.

What about Ongo and Tongo and their families who, if these two brave snake hunters don't go catch snakes? What about them?

IF you don't want imports being sent in that's fine, don't buy them. Make loud noises and snub those who do. Make blanket statements that you won't buy from people who deal in imports whether they be gravid or not.

Of course, unless you're a hypocritical sack of crap, you KNOW that the snakes YOU have came from imports and/or gravid females. How come it's OK for YOU to have them but not the next wave of regius keepers? You've got yours so screw the newbs eh? Very cool of you.

And flippers, yes we're terrible. I say we because I buy and flip maybe a dozen or so balls every year. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I suppose guys buying corns by the hundred lot and garters by the thousand and flipping them are better somehow but I can't figure out how.

I do a lot of west coast shows and have NEVER been to one that was totally CBB no matter what the advertisements say. LLL, reptile depot, and a couple of other guys are ALWAYS there and they are FLIPPERS, importers, and I, personally, do NO business with them because of the WAY they treat their animals not their origins. Of course customer service also plays a part in my not doing business with them, but that is another issue.

If my choice were to feed my family by selling a legally collected animal or having them starve, you can bet your bottom dollar I'd be catching snakes.

Some of you have presented well thought out points of view, somewhat narrow perhaps, but the thought is evident.

Some of you are fence posts looking for cement.

Before you condemn someone for doing what you say you would not, be sure the origins of your animals do not violate your standards, or, supposed standards, the ones you proclaim in public.

[anatess]

Pardon me for standing on my soapbox... I try to dust it off now and then...

importing helps regulate the Ball Python populations in Africa. If we didn't import them for pets, they'd still be caught and sold for their skins or meat.

I'm getting really tired of hearing this as an excuse to keep enabling importation. If we didn't take 'em, someone else would. There is nothing to support this claim either, and I, for one, have a hard time seeing export at the current numbers if a large market suddenly dried up. Maybe it would go on for a year or two at best, but ultimately not at the current trend.

Maybe taking WC gravids out of the wild is harmful. Maybe taking them is a service to the species to stop overpopulation. But until there is enough evidence to prove anything it's probably best to leave the WC gravids alone and in the wild, and let mother nature decide what happens.

You know, I just shake my head everytime somebody - in any situation, like WC bp's, deer hunting, moose hunting or whatever - tries to justify it by saying, "we're just trying to control the population." or "we're trying to promote species health through survival of the fittest".
Population control and strength of the species is something Mother Nature is designed for. Anything we do to change nature's design has to be thought of long and hard because anything we do has environmental impacts all over that, unless we are experts on the field, can have drastic and sometimes irreparable undesired results. This news item is a perfect example of this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090113/...it_infestation

So, I tend to throw all those amateur "controlling population" reasons to the junk pile as some idiot trying to justify his idiot behavior without even bothering to really understand what they are trying to do. Too much to do, too little time, ya know.