Need some Chameleon cage/setup advice!

[Argentra]

Sorry, I guess that is a bit vague. This is what I'm referring to:



Now, I'm looking into getting some aluminum screen...but I'm not sure what type. Is basic aluminum screen from Lowes going to be alright or is it too rough?

And we aren't sure where we're getting him yet. I had wanted to look at the RMRE...but that's looking pretty grim for participants. We want to find a local breeder so as to avoid the stress (and cost) of shipping... but I'm not sure that'll be possible.

[SoCaliSon]

Hello! I can't believe I missed this one so far!

Thought I would give my few cents. First thing I will tell you about keeping chams... Ask anyone who has been doing it a while... they are an addicting Money Pit... But they are awesome. Just know that you will have to warm yourself up to the idea of spending decent amounts of money, and in the end, You will find that the Chameleon itself really was the cheap part. I have been all the routes... I have used Custom built cages, I have built my own, I have tried cheap Reptariums, and in the end... You will save your self a lot of time and headache by buying an Alum Screen Cage. You can find them used for not to much, but LLL Reptile sells great Screen cages for the best price... and they often have sales on them... You will thank yourself later if you get one of those... And your cham will love it. For my 6 month Male Veiled, until 4months old he was in an 18x18x36 getting natural sun daily and he grew large quick and I moved him to the LLL 4x2x2 cage and he loves it. LLL also has the best price on the most recommended UV Bulb for chams, the Reptisun 5.0 for $13.99. For heat/basking bulb, just use a regular dome fixture on top with a 60w old style house bulb, They tend to provide all the heat needed for a Veiled, and cost worlds less than "Basking Blubs" made specifically for herps.

I would not recommend a bird cage, I have heard stories of people trying and finding chams with stuck heads and limbs in the bars.

Another thing I would recommend reconsidering is the flooring you are thinking about. Ideally you want to have 3-4, 5 min mistings a day... and it becomes necesarry to collect or drain this water somehow. You do not want to try to count on evaporation. When the water pools in the bottom of the cage where there may be droppings, dead leaves, maybe dead crickets, you are talking about a bacterial field day, and if you cham starts ingesting things at the bottom or that have been at the bottom, you are going to be possibly looking at a sick cham, and vet bills at that point. People often buy tubs that are a little bigger than the footprint of the cage to set the cage on, and drill drainage holes in the bottom. There really are countless ways to get creative about draining the water, but the main thing to remeber about your cage floor, and drainage; Water cannot be allowed to pool, and the cage floor should ideally be something that can be easily removed, and sanitized..

As for the mister... Do not buy the Habba Mist.. It is a worthless piece of junk, and a definate waste of money for chameleons. When I plugged mine in the first time... I thought it was boken it was so noisy and the mist (if you could call it that) was incredibly crappy... When it kicked on my poor cahm would run and hide from the thing. For a good long while I hand misted, but if you are going to ... Do yourself a favor and spend $7 at Lowes or Home Depot for a Hand Held Pump Pressure Sprayer. Your hand will get real tired misting after five mins of squeezing the lever on that spray bottle. If you are interested ina cheap DIY automated mister, you can take a larger garden pressure sprayer, and a hose timer and create a pretty nice mister that can handle the mistings and save you a lot of time standing in front of cages spraying. Here is a pic of one I have to give you an idea of what I am talking about.

You basically pump to build pressure, then set the hose timer to flick on at ceratin times for certain intervals. The Nozzles are on the long skinny section of tubing. Since there is no elec pump involved in this, the only noise is the click, and then the sound of mist. This one actually misted two big cages for me for a good while before I upgraded to a HerpMist.

You can build this for around $40. It works great! Or ... I can sell you this one for $25!




Plants... There really are several that are safe... And you definately want to make sure they are since Veileds are renowned for eating their foliage. Here are the ones to use off the top of my head... Ficus Benjamina, Hibiscus, Pothos, Schefflera Arboricola, and Bouganvillia(The thorns are actually not an issue with them, as even in their natural habitat they are found inhabiting throend bushes, maybe for the extra security. I have seen them hang out almost exclusively on their Bouganvillia, not to mention they add some nice flowery color to the cage.

Buying... The best way to do it is to find a reputable dealer and order from them...no matter where they are in the country...Shipping is not as scary as you think, and very rarely ends up with any issues. If you don't ship, then you are limiting yourself to what you can find locally even though the quality may not be ideal. I have recieved several perfectly happy and healthy chams via UPS over night, from accross the country, with absolutely no issues to date, and I am glad I ordered from the people I did. Don't limit your options when you have such a valuable resource as the interenet to find the perfect healthy cham anywhere in the country. And definately don't buy one from a glass tank in the petstore. Mike Monge at FLChams, Chad and Darci at Tiki Tiki Reptiles, those are the two I can think of at the moment, that are considered very reptuatble in the Biz, and I would assure you a pleasnt transaction and a healthy baby from them. The only thing I would not recommend buying from LLL would be their animals. If you have trouble finding someone you feel comfortable ordering from feel free to PM me, and I can make sure you get in touch with someone worth dealing with.

Good Luck with your Venture!!! They are great herps to work with, and can have you addicted and broke in a heart beat... But with all the herps I have worked with over the years I still consider my Chams the most rewarding and beautiful. In case I may have scared you away from them at all in my monster post I will post a pic of my Buddy Lombardi to keep you interested...lol. He is the Drunk little Cham who was this months HOTM winner... this pic was taken about a month and a hlaf after the pic from the contest.



Take Care!

~Joe

[JimNAZ]

I would stay away from aluminum and get vinyl screening. They sell kits (with framing for windows) or by the roll. Really easy to work with . . .
Just keep in mind "easy cleaning" when you design your cage.
If you have the cage full of plants, they will catch and absorb most of the water from misting. Since you are building a cage, you can add a drain on the bottom. This way you can still use your matting. Also, if you intend on using either some sort of dripper, you can always place a cup underneath where the water will land and change it out every day. The big problem with standing water is when people do not clean it out every day. (BTW: an ice cube left on top of the screen top makes a great little dripper!)
Veileds are pretty hardy but try to get a basking temp in the high 80's low 90's. For me that was a 75w incandescent bulb. They thermo regulate rather well on their own.

You CAN spend a lot of cash on accessories so that is totally up to you. Understand the husbandry and you can get by with many DIY items.

I agree with the other poster. You can get very healthy animals from reputable breeders that ship overnight. I have never had a problem. Will cost about $50 extra but well worth it. If you do try to find something locally just make sure it is not dehydrated (sunken eyes/Dark skin around the eyes) or weak. I know these are obvious points but sometimes overlooked when excited about getting a new animal! ** And make sure you get a male!

Jim

[SoCaliSon]

I would stay away from aluminum and get vinyl screening. They sell kits (with framing for windows) or by the roll. Really easy to work with . . .

Vinyl screening is easier to work with... But is typically not recommended for Chameleon cages as crickets are infamous for chewing holes through vinyl screen.

[Argentra]

Thanks to BOTH of you for the awesome answers!!

However, neither of you has told me yet if you think it would be acceptable to use those cube panels (pic at top of page) as a frame...

I already have some good quality vinyl window screen (huge roll to enclose my porch) so I shall use that. It Would be easier to clean. And crickets chewing out isn't really an issue for me since he'll only get crickets now and then, and they'll be cup fed to him. My BF refuses to allow crickets in large amounts in the house...in his cage or in a breeding tank.

The vinyl mat/tray on the bottom is mainly to serve as a bottom. As for the water and waste removal, if it's alright to use those panels I plan on making a 'second floor' about 7" up from the base, with larger hole screen covering it, with a tub in the space underneath. Sort of like a bird cage tray. It would be MUCH harder with a wood frame to do that...

The bulb thing isn't hard or pricey for me since I have a box full of assorted SunGlo bulbs in varying wattages and no 'normal' household incand. bulbs (we use the 'green' compact bulbs).

I have been looking at FLChams and I'll check out Tiki Tiki. I've had snakes shipped before, but was nervous about such a sensitive animal being shipped here to cold Colorado. And I fully intend to get a male, no worries there.

Thanks again, guys...and let me know if you think those panels could be used for a frame.

[SoCaliSon]

I don't know about those frames. You would still have to line it with some kind of screening, as the openings seem to big, and possibly a hazard for your cham to get himself stuck or escaping. After getting crafty and managing to connect a front to it, and screening the intereior, you will probably wish you had just forked out the little bit of extra money for an actual chameleon cage. You can find used cages all over, CraigsList, the Recycler, and Classified sections on chameleon sites, for about as much as you would spend in materials on a DIY.

Here is a great article on doing DIY cages from Chameleons! Online E-Zine. This is similar to some of my cages. These are rather overkill for what you are looking for, but it can still offer you ideas on the specifics.

[JimNAZ]

Vinyl screening is easier to work with... But is typically not recommended for Chameleon cages as crickets are infamous for chewing holes through vinyl screen.

Well everyone has their stories but I never have had a problem with this and know of others that use it too . . .. Since crickets are not the main feeder I feel this is a great alternative.

Jim

[JimNAZ]

I agree, those wire sections look like they have too big an opening. Since crickets will not be used I would not go for more than 1/2 inch openings on screen/wire/webbing.

Since you already have the screen and possibly wood, just make a frame, add a door and cover it with screen. (There is more to this than that but you know what I mean. After a while you will more than likely want to change the layout/structure anyway . . . It happens to all of us. Eventually you just might end up getting the cham cages anyway. I really like them and the are really easy to put together (take a part) and clean.

Not sure if we are on the same page with the heat bulb. As said in another post, you do not want to use a reptile "heat" bulb. They will get too hot! You just want the closest (branch) basking area to be in the high 80's - low 90's.

You would need to speak with the breeder on whether they are comfortable shipping to a specific location at a specific time of year (temp). The two that were mentioned above I have dealt with and have nothing but the best to say about them. If they say it is ok to ship then trust them.

Jim

[SoCaliSon]

Yeah I don't imagine vinyl being a problem if you are cup feeding, just keep an eye for any that escaped the cups down in the corners , casue once there is a hole, others will follow single file.. I know supers can chew threw it as well pretty easily as well. It can work, not saying it won't, Just I have heard enough of those stories to stear me away from it, and warn others of the possiblity as well.

But if you are cup feeding, and in deed making a DIY cage, I believe the best option would be neither alum or Vinyl, but instead, PVC coated Wire mesh, something with a openings no bigger than an 1/8 or 1/4 inch opening. The benefit of this is that if your Cham climbs the side of the cage, it is A LOT easier on their feet. The tiny little holes in screen cause them to put all of their weight on their toe nails when climbing, and can end up with broken nails, which do not grow back, and depending on how bad it is can get infected. For my "Screen Climbers" I line the intereio of my screen cages with this stuff solely so it can be climbed easier and to avoid nail breaks, this way it keeps insects in as well, so that is another option.

Just food for thought.

Sounds like Jims Idea of just buiding the fram, which is very basic, and going from their the screening is a good way to go. I agree that you will most likely make changes in design along the wya.. that is how these things work! Good Luck!

[Argentra]

The panels would only be the frame...of course I was going to cover it with screen. And for the front, you just attach other panels with zip ties for the door.

I fully understand that you guys mean well by telling me to buy a pre-made cage... but that is just not an option for me. The LLL cage costs $50 without shipping, and that's way too much for me.

Since I already have these panels here at home, as well as some wood, building my own cage is the best option right now. I'm just trying to figure out the best materials. I'm reluctant to use wood since I would have to paint it with a latex-based paint to seal it. And tho I've already used that paint on my snake rack, and on my almost finished cages, I know that chams are sensitive and I don't like to risk it.

Now, I just have to find a good screen type. I already have a roll of vinyl window screen, but I was concerned about the climbing thing (I've owned an iguana before). I don't know what you mean by the PVC coated wire mesh... what does it look like and where would it be found? I'd like to use the best screen that won't hurt him.