Genetic "flaws" associated with various morphs?

[Bruce Whitehead]

bruce your post totally ninja'd mine!

Is that ice? HI-YA!!!

(do ninjas break ice?).

[Doxster]

by super spider, I mean "homozygous spider".

The pinstripe is a dominant gene, and there are "super pinstripes", meaning homozygous pinstripes that when bred to a normal BP will throw 100% heterozygous pinstripe babies.

That is not entirely proven yet. Brian claims to own one "super pinstripe" that produces all pins. Would be nice but I'm not totally convinced yet.

[Slim]

Is there anyone here who doesn't keep spiders because of it?

Me. The original was twisted in the cranium, and so are all the following generations. I actually really like Spiders, but won't keep one due to the spin factor. I know a lot of people keep Spiders that spin, and love them, and I know that a lot of people say THEIR Spider doesn't spin, and I have no choice but to believe them. Still I won't have Spiders or Spider combos. My hobby, my choice.

Caramel Albinos? Only if they are kink free, the rest should go in the frezeer unless you are never going to offer them for sale.

I won't keep Black Pastels and Cinnys with the duck bill. In my opinion, the duckbill is a deformity, not a mutation like color.

Pieds that don't like to eat....I'll prolly take that risk when the time comes.

[shimmer]

Even normals can have flaws. I had an extremely dark male normal that had been abused. His tail looked like someone came at him with a meat tenderizer. It was so bad I had to give him a bath so he could poop. He died from a stroke because of the abuse but he was an amazing snake.
Carmels are a morph I would stay away from even though they have varing degrees of kinking. I have heard that a good portion kink behind the head and in the neck.

Look at the family tree of the snake before you buy, the more inbreeding the more gentic problems. Most morphs were created by breeding the orginal with its offspring but if a breeder is keeping the pool small and shallow don't buy.

Don't buy from BHB. I have seen and heard way to many problems with this company. They are like the Walmart of BP breeders and I personally would never buy from them. Ralph Davis, LLLReptile, and Mike Wilbanks/Bob Clark are all very good breeders. Ralph only does phone orders which shows he really does care about his animals. Don't Buy from Petco or Petsmart they get their stock from Rainbow Exotics and other Bad Breeders that often have bad breeding and caring conditions and practices.

[muddoc]

Super spiders... my bad, I should have said homozygous spiders (which if not fatal should exist).

bruce

Bruce,
I am just curious, but why should a Homozygous Spider exist if not fatal? The reason I ask, is I only know of 3 or 4 breedings that were attempted, and never really heard any of the results from those breedings. I have heard from a pretty r4eliable source that somone has a Spider that has produced in the neighborhood of 80 offspring, with no Normals. Is it true, I don't know, but only time will tell. I myself think that it is still possibly a true dominant mutation (meaning the Heterozygous and Homozygous are identical in appearance), but not enough people have tried the breeding. Reason being, many were turned off, by what else can be made with their female Spiders, and the rest turned off by the fact that it would take many breedings of the offspring (that were well documented) to prove it either way.

Just my 2 cents, but I still believe there may be a shadow of doubt,

[muddoc]

By the way,
I do have Spiders. Some spin some don't , but I love them all the same. I also have Caramels, and think they are too amazing looking as adults to risk never having the gene at all. I also have a Woma, and intend to shoot for Pearls, and also am breeding for Super Cinny's this year. I guess what I am trying to say is that I like to gamble a little, and will take my chances that I have to euthanize a few animals in the process of creating some beautiful animals.

[Slim]

I guess what I am trying to say is that I like to gamble a little, and will take my chances that I have to euthanize a few animals in the process of creating some beautiful animals.

This, I respect very much

Don't buy from BHB. I have seen and heard way to many problems with this company. They are like the Walmart of BP breeders and I personally would never buy from them.

This, I don't respect so much. If you had a bad experience with BHB, I hope you tried to work it out with Brian. I understand it's your opinion, and you are welcome to it, but I don't think you'll get much traction on this Forum calling BHB the Wal-Mart of BP breeders. The man has some amazing projects, and takes care of his animals.

Not to mention that trashing breeders is not what this thread is about.

[Bruce Whitehead]

Bruce,
I am just curious, but why should a Homozygous Spider exist if not fatal? ...
Just my 2 cents, but I still believe there may be a shadow of doubt,

I said that " if not fatal should exist"... in that if it is not fatal, then they should exist. So if even one exists, then that invalidates the theory that homozygous are fatal.

Personally I never bought that it was fatal, but I do not have enough experience with them to know (just got my first two spider girls this year).

It does not make sense to me that it could not exist in a homozygous form, but again, I have never bred spiders to know that for sure.

Bruce

PS: Did that make sense?

[J.Vandegrift]

Don't buy from BHB. I have seen and heard way to many problems with this company. They are like the Walmart of BP breeders and I personally would never buy from them. Ralph Davis, LLLReptile, and Mike Wilbanks/Bob Clark are all very good breeders. Ralph only does phone orders which shows he really does care about his animals.

What an idiotic comment. You talk bad about BHB but recommend going with LLLReptile. Is LLL reptile even a breeder? I was always under the impression that they are a wholesaler. Since you mentioned it, what are some of the problems YOU have seen with BHB? I am honestly curious what kind of issues you have had with them.

[Lateralus_Love]

What an idiotic comment. You talk bad about BHB but recommend going with LLLReptile. Is LLL reptile even a breeder? I was always under the impression that they are a wholesaler. Since you mentioned it, what are some of the problems YOU have seen with BHB? I am honestly curious what kind of issues you have had with them.

^^^