Another poss YB. - pls vote!

[Morphie]

So do explain. It's a YB because you want it to be one or because it's supposed to be one?

It's a yellowbelly because his dad was a super.

Bruce, I'm sorry you feel that way. I felt i needed an information sample that was impossible to get if i told folks that it was a definite YB from the get-go. The snarky "why don't you just buy one" responses made me feel a little crappy -really was that necessary?- and it was a little bit satisfying to share what I knew finally, but only because of those snarky responses (yours was one).

I started the thread with a genuine desire to get some information. I probably wouldn't have shared what i knew at all if I hadn't felt so poorly treated by the responses, but it appeared that people needed to know that i'm not just an idiot going around and buying up all the 'poss morphs' i can find and hoping they're morphs, as some of you seemed to start to think (and act like it was true) after the second thread.

Mr. Stone did not send a receipt (well - at least - if he did I don't have it anymore.) I bought that YB well over a year ago (before it occurred to me that perhaps i should save receipts for animals instead of discarding them). I bought two at the time actually, but one had a problem right before shipping day and Mr. Stone did me the great kindness of shipping a Mojave in place of YB II.

Here're some of our emails for anyone who feels skeptical (my email addy and some other non-pertinent info has been removed to protect the innocent ):

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Company Name: Jeremy Stone Reptiles

Name: Jeremy Stone

E-mail: jeremy@boaconstrictor.com

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Ship (P/U) date: Jul 11, 2007
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Number of pieces: 1
Weight: 1.00 lb.

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-----Original Message-----
Fromxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com [mailto: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com[/email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:54 AM
To: jeremy@boaconstrictor.com
Subject: Message about: MOJAVE MALE and WHITE snake PACKAGE.

*************
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If
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I am curious and interested in an offer i saw on Kingsnake.com suggesting
you had two male yellowbellies (BP) for $350.

If this is so, please contact me. I live in MA, so i would want to know
more about your terms of sale (do you guarantee a live arrival etc.) and
about their current conditions - how old they are, how much they weigh, any
problems feeding or handling - all of that great stuff.

Also i wouldn't suppose you'd be willing to sell just one?

Thanks! I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Morphie

Jeremy Stone <jeremy@boaconstrictor.com> wrote:
Hello,

Yes, I do have 2 left. I guarantee LIVE arrival, and 100 percent healthy
and feeding. They are about 6 weeks old. I will have to check the weight.
They don't have any feeding or handling problems. They are very nice
animals. I am quite shocked they are going this cheap. These are NOT W/C
yellowbellies. These are actual babies produced from my Ivory Male.

If you want BOTH, I can do it for 300 shipped. If not, I can sell you one
for 175 Shipped.

Let me know if you are still interested. Thanks, Jeremy

then there was some discussion about one of them not doing so well and so, like i said, he generously offered to replace it with a Mojave, which I've still got.

More exchanges took place - lots of boring details but then i finally got the snakes:

From: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Message about: MOJAVE MALE and WHITE snake PACKAGE.
To: "Jeremy Stone" <jeremy@boaconstrictor.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2007, 8:05 AM

Jeremy -

The snakes arrived safely. Both look like they want to shed, but they're gorgeous! I can't wait until they do.

I am really excited to have a mojave in my collection. Thank you for your generous compensation. I hope very much that the other YB is alright and eating well again soon.

If you would like me to write a review (very positive of course) please let me know.

Sincerely,

Morphie

There might be a review for him on the BOI, authored by me. Don't remember if i ever went through with it or not.

Since the majority of you folks think so adamantly that he's not YB, i've written to Mr. Stone and asked him to confirm that he believes he has shipped me a YB. I trust his word, but I just wanted to double check and hear it straight from him that he believes everything about that transaction was what I expected it to be. I can't imagine what mistakes could have been made, but I guess you never know.

Cheers, everyone

[Beardedragon]

I could see it being a yb, but if it was a possible one like said at the start I would have said no. There is always the slim chance that it isn't a yb even from a super, if he had paired the mom to a Codom there could have been the chance it got one of the normals from it. Im not saying its likely, but you never know.

[Bruce Whitehead]

My response was not `snarky` that is how you read it.

I said I voted that you buy one, as obviously you want one. I wanted one, so I bought one. There are one of my favorite morphs and I love their potential.

You said it was not a gotcha thread initially, but now you just admitted it was.

So what gives?

If you had stated, this is a YB, what do you guys think? That would have been upfront and perhaps encouraged some good dialogue.

You misrepresented on purpose, and to me that is not admirable. You wanted opinions on whether it looked like a YB, seems that most people do not think it does.

I do not doubt that if the breeder says it is, and you trust the breeder, that you did indeed get one.

You wanted opinions... well that is what you got. Just perhaps a bit more than you bargained for.

Bruce

[rabernet]

The snarky "why don't you just buy one" responses made me feel a little crappy -really was that necessary?- and it was a little bit satisfying to share what I knew finally, but only because of those snarky responses (yours was one).

My response had no snarkiness intended - it was a genuine suggestion, to your what I originally thought was a genuine inquiry about whether that snake was a YB.

Unfortunately, I cannot control your sensitivity to my response and that of others. I am happy for you, however, that you felt some sense of satisfaction in your reply to me.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Shows that not all YB are created equal!

[FatBoy]

I agree with Bruce...You posted the thread looking like you hoped you had stumbled across a yb and wanted to be reassured it was or wasn't, when you knew what you had the entire time. The remarks were straight forward and honest, "why buy what you Think is a yb hoping for the best when you can get a for sure yb from a breeder pretty reasonable" I understood completely. I'm pretty sure if Mr Stone sold it to you as a yb then it is, but it still don't look like one and in my opinion it is a poor example of the morph. Worst thing I get out of all of this is any possible damage that may be done to Mr Stones reputation. Personally I wont let it affect me but I can't speak for everyone.

[Morphie]

I am sorry for being misleading. I agree that's not the best way to go about making friends, and I probably shouldn't have done it - I apologize to anyone who felt mistreated as a result of my doing it.

I was looking for a specific kind of information, which I got, but I felt overwhelmed by the negativity (or what i perceived as such) in the replies. I didn't originally intend to let on what i knew about the snake (because getting what i needed out of this thread didn't require doing so), and I should have kept it that way.

Thanks to everyone who participated in the thread one way or the other. Cross your fingers for me that someday he proves out... or something

[RichardA]

I just want to say one thing here at the end of this thread. I voted no, why?, because that in no way shape or form fits to what a YB is as a marker.

Mistakes happen, I am not saying that you paid for a normal here, but there is a chance that you did in fact pay for a YB and got a normal. No disrespect to the seller, I am not saying he did it on purpose or anything, mistakes happen sometimes.....just part of life.

I ordered in 6 females one time from pretty big/well known breeder. What I unboxed was 6 males. No harm intended by the guy, just a mix up in packaging. He refunded some of my $ and I kept em. No bad reviews by me or him about it. Just a simple mistake that happened.

I hope you prove it out and it is in fact a weird YB. I just wouldnt hold my breath on it.

[Morphie]

After checking Jeremy Stone's site and looking at the YB he keeps in his collection, I'm feeling a bit more comfortable:

http://www.boaconstrictor.com/index.php?productID=145

He looks a lot like my guy, whose dad is supposedly one of those Ivories that was produced by the first YB's that came from The Snake Keeper.

I'm still waiting on a response, but I'm feeling a little less like something went horribly wrong almost 18 months ago and I'm just now learning about it.

[butters!]

redundant