i talked to them both, east viv has one, but i need to contact them for pictures, and i found another place with them, and i talked to a diff guy who said he has somebody in south africa that breeds them, so im going to get in touch with him again to get some more information. i love how the rufous have the black around the eye, im not sure if the r. rostratus and r. oxy ros have them or if just one or the other, still trying to find that information out.