Is there a Morph you will never own/breed due to genetics?

[lillyorchid]

Thanks for posting that link at RDR's forums, I was actually trying to find it this morning. If you aren't a member to his forum and don't feel like signing up to just read his post here it is:

Ralph
Boner Chief



USA
3220 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2007 : 1:45:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Send Ralph a Private Message Reply with Quote
EVERY SINGLE ONE of my spiders are tweaked........I have close to 30 now I think?.............I don't sugar coat :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:........SPIDERS do weird :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:........even the very subtle stuff I can see easily.........I'm not in denial about it.

I have adult breeder females and males.........sub adults and babies.........there isn't a single one that doesn't spin, wobble or tilt it's head to the side to some degree,,,,,,,I produced some, got some from other breeders........some start and then stop.........some stop and then start again....

Watch your spider at night cruising in the cage..........now that's a real TREAT!!

I have spiders that do loop de' loops at night.

ROCK ON!

I've not had the opportunity to work for Ralph Davis, but I've had the pleasure going up to his place and having a tour and him coming to Peter Kahl's facility and talking to him a lot along with seeing the results of his years and years of breeding snakes. I know Adam also wrote up a thing on spiders a year or two ago. That can be found here:
http://forum.8ballpythons.com/blog/?p=5

[LadyOhh]

Seems as if a can of worms has been opened.

Bottom line is, whatever you believe in as far as what genetically is predisposed to or not, the real question is "Would you own or breed one?"

[lillyorchid]

the real question is "Would you own or breed one?"

I'd never buy one. If someone had to rehome there spider and was unable to do so or gave me one I'd give it a good home but as far as breeding goes absolutely not.

[Wh00h0069]

Seems as if a can of worms has been opened.

Bottom line is, whatever you believe in as far as what genetically is predisposed to or not, the real question is "Would you own or breed one?"

Yes, I do own spiders, and have bred them. My adult spider does not show any syptoms, and the offspring does not either.

[karbogast]

Seems as if a can of worms has been opened.

Bottom line is, whatever you believe in as far as what genetically is predisposed to or not, the real question is "Would you own or breed one?"

Heather I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, just give my opinion as to why I wouldn't work with them. The only other morph I don't care for are axanthics. I like yellow snakes, so removing yellow is a turn off for me.

Is that more what you had in mind?

[Rapture]

I am a bit torn on the subject. I really love some of the spider combos that have been produced. However I still do not own a spider due to their abnormal behavior. A friend of mine has a few spiders, and when I look at them I actually feel sorry for the things. It's like they don't have full control over their body and it makes them look confused and pitiful. I'm not sure if I could produce more animals like that.

To me the next best pattern morph after the spider would be the Pinstripe; I may just decide to work with those and pass on spiders and spider combos all together.

I would also be curious to know whether all Caramels are kinked to one extreme or another, and if the ones that don't seem kinked actually are to a very slight degree. That would help me decide if the Caramel is a morph I want to work with or not. Right now I haven't made any plans for it.

Another morph I would not want to produce would be the super cinny. The "duck bill" nose is not flattering to me at all.

[LadyOhh]

Heather I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, just give my opinion as to why I wouldn't work with them. The only other morph I don't care for are axanthics. I like yellow snakes, so removing yellow is a turn off for me.

I want to make it clear that I wasn't trying to belittle the discussion about Spinning in Spiders. EVERYONE has an opinion on it, to be sure.

I was just more curious about what traits you would not breed for DUE TO the genetic issues (which you may or may not consider an issue, depending on the trait)

[andwhy6]

I take offense to this. It sounds to me like you are saying that I am am lying about my spiders. As I have said before. They do not wobble! If they do start to wobble then I will not breed them.

I have heard of accounts of spiders that wobble, but I have also heard of accounts of spiders that do not wobble, including myself.

im not saying your lying but the guy you bought your snake from could be.. if you got your spider from a large breeder then there is no doubt in my mind they have produced a spider with the wobbles. its just like that rdr vid... if you breed spiders your gonna get some that arent right

ya there are spiders that dont have them.... BUT they still produce them and they still MAY start wobbling one day. thats all i was saying and you were disagreeing with facts...

[jknudson]

There are really no morphs that I wouldn't ever own/breed due to genetics...other than maybe...animals that are ugly examples of their morph.

Plain and simple, I won't ever breed a pastel that looks normal, a spider with heavy pattern, cinnamons that look entirely too normal...albinos that turn into a yellow wash... there is so much that can be done with selective breeding. Case and point, look at what Albey has done with pastels, cinnamons, and pewters!

It irks me that all to many people go buy the most inexpensive animals they can find, throw them with any ol' proven breeder normal girl that they can find, not putting any thought into the pairing, and pass on those horrible UGLY genetics just to make a quick buck. Pastel males at $50-75...I mean COME ON! I have two lemon males that I hatched this year, no way I'll sell them for that cheap. If they age anything like their mother, which I'm guessing they will, they'll have spots in my racks.

Rant over!

I appreciate each and every morph in it's own right, as long as you represent your animals for what they are, and breed for the best quality animals you can, you have my respect.

[dprince]

I would also be curious to know whether all Caramels are kinked to one extreme or another, and if the ones that don't seem kinked actually are to a very slight degree. That would help me decide if the Caramel is a morph I want to work with or not. Right now I haven't made any plans for it.

I do not have years of experience in dealing with ball pythons. *disclaimer*

I did a lot of research prior to buying my caramel female; there were many, many caramel albinos that I saw (both advertised on the internet, and at various shows) that do not have any kinking (including my new girl - pictures after she sheds!! ) I have seen a handful with kinking (both slight and severe), but more without.

To keep on Heather's thread............

I think through outcrossing, many undesirable traits can be lessened, or eliminated. I don't think there are any current morphs that I would be adementally against breeding, but I would be certain to do as much research as possible to make the best decision I could about my breeding choices.

Just my two cents.