Reporting animal abuse/neglect - help please? DUW

[sjsexotics]

The pics of the reptiles were more about how they were being housed - I was tryign to get information about if those set ups are okay or not. All the water bowls in the snake tanks (except the hognose - that picture I got before) I cleaned and filled when the girl said they didn't need water every day.

I know the pictures aren't very clear - I only had my cell phone - but the snake tanks all had old poop in them and minimal heat. The ball pythons tank had 2 sheds in it as well as old poop - and the red tail had a shed in there as well that you could tell was more than a few days old. She also said the beardies ate thursday so they didn't need food today (saturday morning) - which I have no idea if they eat everyday or if they are like snakes. I couldn't get any of the mammals because she didn't leave in the room with them alone at all.

ok well yes that is an issue beardies should always have veggies avalibable that being said though they dont look to be to thin ya snakes haveing more then one poop there cage is sad husbendry since they poop only once every week or two

[SecurityStacey]

Well if they think they have "enough" people I wonder what these "enough" people are doing since by what you said, it sure ain't cleaning tanks.

Look even if I was overwhelmed, I'd still bloody well tidy up the critters before I'd take a volunteer or anyone else through. That's just nasty to show off your animals while they sit there in their own waste products! However, since you were volunteering to do computer stuff and not direct animal care and by this person's response, well it sounds like they think their conditions are just nifty.

Like I said before, if your assessment is these animals are neglected or being cared for incorrectly....report these people. We don't need "educators" that can't educate themselves on proper husbandry for each species they keep.

Thanks.

The fact that she didn't even try to make excuses for it tells me that she doesn't think there is anything wrong with it. And even if they were receptive to me helping them there I still can't do anything about all the animals at his house since they aren't program animals.

Also, since this is such a small group whereas the other facility they have has 100s of animals I don't think they are capable of taking care of them - even if they knew what they should be doing. (and on that note - maybe they don't know the proper husbandry for reptiles - but anyone knows that poop should be cleaned up).

I'm going to talk to her tomorrow and ask her about the condition of the animals and the cages and see what she says - but even if they are receptive to my suggestions I don't think they have the manpower, time or money for all the animals they have - and even with the best of intentions that is a problem.

I don't think they have bad intentions but I don't think they are capable of taking care of these animals. In fact, she was telling me how she rents and the 3 squirrels she has are tearing up the place that she rents and she hopes the landlord doesn't find out - which is always a sign of a irresponsible pet owner - and if they can't take care of their animals at home I don't have much faith in them being able to take care of exotic animals that need special care.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I'm going to talk to her tomorrow and ask her about the condition of the animals and the cages and see what she says - but even if they are receptive to my suggestions I don't think they have the manpower, time or money for all the animals they have - and even with the best of intentions that is a problem.

"security" stacy, sounds like you have already made up your mind. Are you going to help re-home all of these animals when the man comes and takes them away? You know, the animal cop guy who thinks someone clearly has a problem if they have more then 3 snakes....

I am sorry, but with everyting you described it would be absolutely unaceptable to "turn them in" without first mentioning your concerns, and second, allowing them time to reply or address your concerns.

Who are you? the animal police?!!! you see a few tanks that need to be cleaned out and assume they are not "fit" to care for their animals?! Even more, you assume that they don't have the manpower, time, or money for the animals they have?

Talkabout judgemental.... JEESH!

[Mike Cavanaugh]

LOL!!!

Now it really makes sense that you want to report this guy to "the authorities...."

Please allow me to remind you of a thread that YOU just started!!!

I'm watching Animal Planet and they did a "bust" on someone’s place that had reptiles (I guess they aren't allowed in San Francisco) and they made it sound horrible. Usually animal planet does a good job but... the guy has mostly BPs (include a pretty pretty piebald), I might have seen a Burmese, rainbow boa, jcp, red tail and a couple I don't recognize (boas and pythons though, and no reticulateds) and there are only 26 - and the officer is saying that it is a dangerous collection that could kill or seriously injure a large grown man. AND that having that many means that the man has an unnatural obsession with snakes.

He had them all in a nice rack set up - he was breeding mice to feed them and every single one was able to be handled without so much as a tag or hiss and the show is making sound like it was this horrible underground black market trading ring. They say that with this many snakes he must be into *gasp* trading.

This isn't the first time either - they picked up a Burmese on another episode (animal cops) and the guy said he had picked one up that was like 20' before and it ate a 60 lbs pig (which the narrator then pointed out was the size of a 7 year old child).


They do such a good job of challenging myths about pitbulls, I wish they would do the same about snakes.

LOL

[SecurityStacey]

LOL!!!

Now it really makes sense that you want to report this guy to "the authorities...."

Please allow me to remind you of a thread that YOU just started!!!



LOL

Because I had a problem with them taking animals from a guy that was taking good care of them and they were all healthy and treated well that means I shouldn't want them to take animals away from people that aren't taking care of them?

I'm sorry - I don't see the connection. They removed those snakes from that man because they are illegal to have in San Fransciso - not because they weren't being taken care of. And I was also not happy with them saying that the snakes were "deadly".

I don't see how that is the same as them having hundreds of animals in unsanitary conditions and me wanting them removed to better homes.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I don't see how that is the same as them having hundreds of animals in unsanitary conditions and me wanting them removed to better homes.

Calling the animal po-po on reptile people should be a last ditch effort. Ultimately animal po-po often thinks that someone with say a 30 snake collection is sick in the head, and they automaticly assume there is a "problem" There is a BIG difference between having 30 dogs in a house, and having 30 snakes in a house! Many people without first hand experience do not understand that.

Don't make stuff up to try to strengthen your position. Your first thread very clearly explained that you only saw one property, and if I am adding things up correctly the guy had approx 30 animals, and 8 of them were rats!

So, other then the rats, this guy had 22 animals. How, with your expertise of having one snake, were you able to determine that these 22 animals with cages that needed to be cleaned automaticly mean that they have HUNDREDS of animals in unsanitary conditions?! LOL, oh yeah, and that they don't have the manpower, or the money to fix things if they knew as much as you knew.

Quit being a drama queen and talk to the lady about it. "Volunteer" to help. Be part of the solution, not the problem.

[SecurityStacey]

Don't make stuff up to try to strengthen your position. Your first thread very clearly explained that you only saw one property, and if I am adding things up correctly the guy had approx 30 animals, and 8 of them were rats!

So, other then the rats, this guy had 22 animals. How, with your expertise of having one snake, were you able to determine that these 22 animals with cages that needed to be cleaned automaticly mean that they have HUNDREDS of animals in unsanitary conditions?! LOL, oh yeah, and that they don't have the manpower, or the money to fix things if they knew as much as you knew.

Listen, you really don't have to attack me. I came on here to find out how I should go about this and I said I was going to talk to the lady - I didn't say 100% they wouldnt have the time or manpower, but I'm guessing the won't.

Yes, the guy had 30 animals in his house - filled with pig, cat and dog poop and urine where his two little kids live. No reptiles here.

The other location had approx 24 animals - 7 mammals, the rest broke up between reptiles and birds. And I even said that I posted pictures of the reptile cages to find out if that was okay for them to be housed since I didn't know that much about reptiles.

I'm sorry you have an issue with the police. Informing the DEC to have a look at the place and make sure they are taking proper care of their animals shouldn't be a worry if they are taking care of their animals.

[marmie]

[QUOTE=
Yes, the guy had 30 animals in his house - filled with pig, cat and dog poop and urine where his two little kids live. No reptiles here.
.[/QUOTE]

Sorry people but a dog is a dog and a snake is a snake . . . If anyone should be called it's social services for the children. Under no circumstances should children be living in a house with animal crap and urine all over the floor. It is a health hazard and just plain gross.

It's nice that you are trying to help Stacey but IMO the bigger issue are the children.

[littleindiangirl]

"security" stacy, sounds like you have already made up your mind. Are you going to help re-home all of these animals when the man comes and takes them away? You know, the animal cop guy who thinks someone clearly has a problem if they have more then 3 snakes....

I am sorry, but with everyting you described it would be absolutely unaceptable to "turn them in" without first mentioning your concerns, and second, allowing them time to reply or address your concerns.

Who are you? the animal police?!!! you see a few tanks that need to be cleaned out and assume they are not "fit" to care for their animals?! Even more, you assume that they don't have the manpower, time, or money for the animals they have?

Talkabout judgemental.... JEESH!

Mike I think your the one jumping to conclusions here.

You weren't there, and by her small sampling of pictures, (which she has explained she wanted opinions on for size husbandry issues etc), there isn't enough for any of us to jump to conclusions that she is just out to play hero here.

Knowing what I do of your personality, I think you would have confronted them right there and pulled out an answer, however not everyone is comfortable with confrontation.

She has also said before you posted this that she will be asking them if they need help with the husbandry, because she does not feel that it is humane or acceptable.

Lets talk about knee jerk reactions Mike, yours seems to me to be the biggest knee jerk reaction. She was asking for some advice, voiced her concerns and is going to take the issue further with the licensed individuals. What more could she have done to avoid you labeling that as a knee jerk reaction?

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I'm sorry you have an issue with the police. Informing the DEC to have a look at the place and make sure they are taking proper care of their animals shouldn't be a worry if they are taking care of their animals.

You are missing the point completely. You should not just contact the police or the DEC just because you spot dirty cages, or even a dirty house and you want them to be checked out... ESPECIALLY when reptiles are involved.

I understand there are mamals involved to, but since this is a ball python forum, I will talk about the reptiles.

In a lot of places there are no clear cut rules about keeping reptiles. If the investigating officer determins based on his own opinion that the person has too many animals, or that they aren't being kept right, there are a lot of BAD things they can do... including attempting to take the animals away from their keepers!!!!

The way I see it you have 3 options:

1.) mind your own business and do nothing
2.) offer to help get things cleaned up and set up to what you see as correct.
3.) tell them that they need to fix things or you are going to report it... then give them a reasonable amount of time to fix things.

If you tell them to fix things, and they don't... then you can consider calling the authorities.