Feeding Problems, Does This Mouse Look Ok?

[SatanicIntention]

I would seriously consider revamping your entire husbandry. The enclosure is much too big, temperatures are too low and the snake is extremely stressed out. Yes, they will starve themselves to death if their environment is not correct and they don't feel secure(which he doesn't right now).

How I keep new babies is this:

-1 6qt plastic sterilite tub w/lid
-newspaper substrate(full sheet folded in half, then folded in half again)
-1 4" plastic plant saucer(holds water underneath a planter)
-1 AcuRite DIGITAL thermometer/hygrometer unit(WalMart)
-3-4" diameter water bowl
-Hobby Soldering iron(melting holes in the tub)
-undertank heater or a wired piece of flexwatt
-Thermostat or Dimmer(Johnson Controls/Ranco or proportional for thermostat, and Lutron Credenza brand for dimmer)

Set up the tub like so:


Size of snake in the tub(year ago):



After you move him, you NEED to NOT touch him for at least 2 weeks. He needs to settle in and feel safe.

After 2 weeks, offer a LIVE small adult mouse after you have pre-scented the room(stick mouse in cage next to snake's tub for 30 minutes in a dark room). Do not touch the snake, just open the lid, drop the mouse in and close the lid. Keep the room DARK, use a flashlight if you need to.

Wait for 10-15 minutes, don't worry the mouse is unable to hurt your snake if the mouse is well fed and hydrated(and you don't leave it in there for 5 days obviously). If the snake doesn't eat, remove the mouse, close the tub and wait another week. Repeat the same procedure. NO handling at all in between.

DO NOT handle him at all until he's had a good 4-5 consecutive meals. You're going to have him for another 40 years, you have time

[Sonya610]

Today he (and we actually do not know gender) is laying under his heat lamp, this is the first day he has done that but I realize this is an indicator that he is not warm enough.

Yeah you need better thermometers. You will probably also need under tank heaters. Read up on them before installing them, don't stick them to the underside of the tank with the adhesive that comes with them.

Plus with a UTH you will also need something to regulate the heat so you don't cook your snake. You get a zoomed thermostat online for about $24 plus shipping. They can be seriously burned if the UTH is too hot, they don't sense heat/burning the way we do.

It is a shame that you are "not into the snake" but you are the one that has to do all of this. It should be a labor of love.

[Wh00h0069]

At the moment, I have fifty ball pythons. I feed all of them live prey items. I personally do not watch any of them eat. I prescent the room, put all of the rats in, turn off the lights, and come back in about 45 min. The reason I feed live, is becasue I get a much better feed ratio than feeding frozen / thawed (f/t.) Many of my ball pythons will not take f/t. I have tried, and was throwing away a lot of rats that my snakes would not eat. I have never had any problems with live prey hurting my snakes.

If you want to feed f/t, then keep trying. If you snake will not eat /t then I highly recommend feeding live.

Hope this helps.

[frankykeno]

You're going to get a LOT of posts and advice here and it's going to be overwhelming to you. I'd suggest a priorities list (I'm big on list making LOL). Figure out from what people tell you what are the priorities for this new snake.

First thing you need to understand is the unwillingness to eat isn't truly the problem, it's a consequence of other problems or issues for this snake. Focusing on adjusting the causes, instead of the effect i.e. refusal to eat, will help you wade through a lot of information coming at you quickly.

For me, when I deal with any young snake that is refusing I look first to it's housing. The priorities for me would be asking myself these questions....

- is the enclosure to large and therefore causing stress to a shy species that likes to hide out a lot
- is the enclosure providing the proper temperature gradient (90 degrees warm side, 80 degrees cool side, 24/7, no night drops, no instability with big temp swings)
- is the enclosure providing the proper humidity for this species (about 50 to 60%)
- is the enclosure in a quiet place in my home out of the busy family rooms with a lot of traffic and vibrations
- am I providing two hides, barely bigger than this snake is coiled up so the snake has appropriate places to retreat into and to hunt from (these are ambush, not active, predators)
- am I providing clean water and a snake safe bedding in the enclosure

Then I'd look at the family's interactions with this snake and ask myself this....

- are we handling this stressed baby too much
- are the kids bugging around it's enclosure (standing over a snake constantly puts you in the predator position and freaks out little snakes who think you now maybe are going to eat them)

Lastly, I'd look at the snake's overall health issues and ask myself these things...

- was this snake purchased from a source that sells or produces healthy, parasite/disease free snakes
- what history do I really have on this snake as far as it's health, how old it is, what it's feeding history has been before I purchased it

Once I have clear answers to those questions, then I generally have a clearer grasp on the most important issues to address first and then work my way the solutions. For now the priority is setting down a feeding pattern for the snake, not handling, not much else really - just getting it eating regularily for you. Once it's doing that, then handling and more interaction with the family will come along nicely.

[ArmyWife98]

Ok I got a better thermo. Temps are great because mine was on the cool side, it is around 90 on the hot side. Humidity is perfect, it's hard to mess up the humidity in southern Florida. I am not going to move him to a smaller tank, he was in a larger tank in the store by himself and was eating every 7 days. I have no doubt he would eat right now if I offered live.

As for the last post, I bought him at PetCo at the recommendation of two friends who own adult (very healthy) snakes. I will NEVER buy from them again. He had mites 24 hours after I got him home, we treated at home and that didn't work, he ended up having to stay at the vet for two weeks. They said they had been treating him for mites prior to sale, they did not tell us that when we bought him.

I do have his feeding history, assuming they were honest and he did poop a few days later and he just had a good clean shed so I am going to assume that part is ok.

He is NOT refusing to eat. He will eat anytime he is offered a live mouse. He ate frozen at the store up until the point he had mites then he refused frozen but at live just fine. They fed him twice while he was with the vet office at PetCo, I was told the mite treatment is highly stressful and this is not unusual. The problem is I want him to eat frozen.

My plan is to get a smaller frozen mouse, this mouse weighs 22 grams. I have read he should eat a hopper that would be around 10 grams. I will be going to a reptile store later today and getting him an appropriately sized frozen mouse. If that doesn't work we will go to live. The snake might be finding a new home when my husband goes to Iraq if he has to eat live, we'll see.

At what point can you handle them daily? Our friends who have ball pythons have them out every night. I see no point in even having him if we can't handle him. If he does eat a live mouse (or even a better sized frozen) I will assume he is just fine with being handled. The kids do stand around his aquarium (the 2 and 4 year old do at least) but I can't see a way of stopping that. I never thought of it as a problem because we have a friend who has 4-5 snakes and she has her kids all over those snakes.

I guess I am off to mouse shop. On a side note, I really hate that my family purchased this animal that I want little to do with and you can see who is stuck doing the dirty work! LOL! :-(

This is is home and then one of him with the mouse (f/t) we offered last night, it just looks way too big to me. The plantation shudder that is open behind his tank is not normally open, I opened it only for better light for the photo. He is by his water dish in this picture, yesterday is the first day he has ever done that. The last one is of him in his feeding tank with the mouse I talked about yesterday. I swear to God the snake gave me an evil glare when we offered this dead mouse. He actually slithered right over as if to let us know just how unacceptalbe this dead mouse was.

[starmom]

I am so sorry that you are going through this situation. It is a real drag taking care of an animal that you really don't seem to feel any affinity toward.

SatanicIntention (Becky) is a very respected member on this forum and is also a CVT and really knows her stuff when it comes to medications and getting stubborn feeders to eat. To discard her advice summarily might be a little short-sighted on your part.

Your snake seems very stressed out. If you absolutely refuse to put him into a different enclosure, perhaps you might entertain the notion of altering his current one. I suggest covering the sides and back of his tank with dark paper or dark material of some sort; this will help the snake to feel more secure. I also suggest adding another hide so that the snake has a cool side hide and a warm side hide.

As for feeding, I would suggest that you only try once every 7 days and that you try to feed him in his own enclosure. At this point, it is my feeling that you are only compounding the stress he is feeling by moving him to another enclosure. Also, are you heating the mouse up really well? This is a very important step. I thaw rodents all day long and then use a blow dryer to heat them immediately prior to offering it to the snake. Lastly, while I can commiserate regarding your feelings of feeding live, this is a snake after all! However, once your guy settles in to his new digs and eats consistently on live, you could then attempt to switch him over to f/t. Most snakes make the switch and some never do; you'll just never know until he de-stresses, eats consistently on live, and then you do the switch.

As for your eating and handling stance- assume nothing and learn!! Because he is eating does not mean he is ready to be the family dog!! Handling too early in the de-stress mode could cause him to go off-feed again.

I strongly urge you to you let go of all pre-conceived notions you might have, all stances that you might feel compelled to take, all examples of what your friends' snakes are doing, and get your own snake settled in and then get to know your own snake. This takes time.

Good luck. Take care.

[Mindibun]

I have to agree with this statement: "I strongly urge you to you let go of all pre-conceived notions you might have, all stances that you might feel compelled to take, all examples of what your friends' snakes are doing, and get your own snake settled in and then get to know your own snake. "

I don't think it is at all fair to this animal that you are unwilling to change your mindsets and do what is best for him. You said, "The problem is that I want him to eat frozen." That's not a problem to him. It's only a problem because you're MAKING it a problem. And you "don't see any way to keep the kids away from the tank"? Lock the door to the room or something. I'd suggest that you take whatever steps are necessary in order to keep your animal healthy and happy.

I'm sorry to come off as a little aggressive this time, but it seems to me that you've only been taking the responses half to heart. Everyone here knows what they are doing, and you should stop talking about how your friends do it and consider the possibility that your friends are ALSO WRONG. The people here have been doing this for a LONG time. Please choose to listen to them over your pride, and if you cannot care for this snake properly, then please find it another home. Hopefully with someone who knows what they are doing...

Again, please don't take offense to this. It's just that I don't think you are really considering everything that's been said, and it's very frustrating to me when I am one of the members that has taken up quite a bit of time posting long, explanatory responses to your questions, only to have them ignored.

[ArmyWife98]

Well. I came here for advice to pass on to the person caring for the snake. So many people around here just take any reptile and toss it out in the Keye's (thus the problem with wild burms here) so I do not appreciate being told I am not being open minded and am not concerned about the animal. Were I not concerend about the animal I would not have spent my morning looking for a place that sales mice in my area. I want nothing to do with this animal but I am attempting to feed it and care for it because I am the only adult who is home more than 6 hours a day and has time to do any research on the matter.

I certainly will not be back here.

[Inknsteel]

As stated several times in this thread, we are not here trying to offend you. We are here trying to help you, and give you the knowledge to best provide for the animal whose life now rests in your hands. I believe from reading your posts that you have no interest in taking care of the animal's very specific needs, nor is anyone else in the household willing and able to do so. If that is in fact the case, the right thing to do would be to find someone who is prepared to give the animal what it deserves, which is a keeper who truly cares for it enough to do whatever it takes to fulfill the snakes needs.

This is not anything personal against you, so please do not take it as such. We here at bp.net are all animal lovers and want to be sure that every animal is given the best care possible. It just sounds like there was little to no research done on the needs and the proper care of this animal before it was purchased. Now that you know what is involved, don't you agree that it may be best to find someone willing and able to provide proper care for it?

[Mindibun]

I want nothing to do with this animal but I am attempting to feed it and care for it because I am the only adult who is home more than 6 hours a day and has time to do any research on the matter.

Then your family should not have purchased this pet. End of story.

I'm not usually this rude or crass, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that your home is probably not the best environment for this snake, and that you have no intention of admitting that or remedying it. If you choose to keep the snake and care for it properly by listening to the advice of the members here, then that is WONDERFUL. However, if you cannot swallow your pride and REALLY listen to what we are telling you, then I suggest you look for a good home for this animal. Please don't let the snake suffer because we've offended you (which was never the original intention).