Update on last 3 spiders (Graphic pics)

[daaangconcepts]

Thank you all so much for your kind words! It really means alot to me.

Oh Susan, I'm so very sorry to read that they didn't make it. I am happy for your sake though that if they weren't going to make it they passed themselves so you didn't have to go through the further upset of having to put them down yourself. Sadly some of these little creatures just aren't meant to make it I think no matter how perfect we try to make the experience. Big hugs dear and like others have said, you are handling this with grace and professionalism in sharing it with us.

The remaining hatchlings are all that much more precious because of this experience.

I couldn't agree more. Even though I was deeply saddened by them passing, I was even more relieved that it was nature and not myself that laid them to rest.

[muddoc]

I don't think it is rare to hatch a full clutch successfully ...however, I am wondering how rare it is to lose this many in one clutch with almost all the same issues.




These are some of the same topics a friend of mine and I were discussing yesterday.

I know for a fact that she is hooked up with a nice bator set by a helix so I don't see how she would have had any temp spikes/drops.

but I also am curious about the gene thing.

I mean..what are the chances of Baba G and this normal female to throw another clutch like this again next year?

Could it be just a fluke thing or do you guys think maybe genetics did play a role?

Sorry Susan...I am not tryng to hijack your thread I just thought it was an interesting topic.

First off, I would like to send some love to Susan, as I know this type of thing is hard to deal with. Also, I would like to thank Susan (and I know MeMe did it last year) for posting up pics of the deformed and deceased babies, as it is an invaluable learning tool for many who have not experienced this before.

To address some of MeMes questions above, I fully believe it is a fluke, and not a genetic disorder brought about from the specific male/female pairing. I base this on a situation that occurred to me. In 2006 I hatched a 7 egg clutch from an Albino bred to a Het Albino. The only Albino in the clutch was severly deformed, and died half way out of the egg. Some of you may remember this picture:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/.../8/albino2.JPG

We repeated the breeding in the 06/07 season, but the female didn't lay eggs. This year, we repeated the breeding again, and got another 7 eggs. This year we hatched out 4 Albinos and 3 Hets, and none of them had the problem. With that said, the year that the deformed baby hatched, the female was only 20 months old. I think that the age of the female might have something to do with the stress put on her young body. My question to Susan would be:How old was the female that laid the eggs? That may give some insight as to what happened.

Another story I would like to relay is about a couple of clutches that I have seen from other breeders in which the entire clutch had over bites. Every snake that hatched had a half bottom jaw. However, subsequent breedings did not produce the same thing. So, I think that there are definitely some things in nature that will stay unexplained, as other clutches in the same incubator can hatch fine (ruling out temp and humidity, i.e condition, fluctations) and subsequent breedings will not produce the same results.

Lastly, I wanted to address the spider that died that was very light in color. I believe that looking at the picture, that snake had not developed as much as much as the other 2 and probably died at least 7 days prior to the others. If that is the case, it appears to have less color because it sidn't have as much time for color to develop as the other 2, giving the Axanthic appearance.

Thanks for those that have read my long winded post about my theories and beliefs, and I always love to take part in these type of threads, as the rarities are where we really do our advanced learning. Thanks again to Susan for posting the pictures, and I would like to once again send my condolences to her.

[Kesslers Kreatures]

Oh no... Im so sorry. they were great looking snakes

Glad the others are doing good though

[MeMe]

Monies.

[daaangconcepts]

Thank you Tim for your condolences and your explainations.

The female who laid the eggs age is unknown. I bought her at the local herp shop a few years ago as an adult (most likely wild caught) female who turned out to be gravid at the time of purchase.

She laid 8 eggs a few months after I bought her, those eggs went bad during incubation and never hatched.

That I will admit was most likely my fault. I was not a member of any forums, I had never owned any reptiles previously. I read online somewhere I should incubate them myself so I did. Using a chicken egg incubator, nothing to control the temps on the built in bator heater, and a cheapo temp/humidity guage that wasn't even digital.

[SlitherinSisters]

I've been following your threads and I'm so sorry to see that they didn't make it! They were gorgeous snakes! I hope you plan to breed again!

Best wishes!

[greghall]

Looks Like They Died Awhile Ago,just Mother Nature I Guess.

[Ginevive]

Sorry that this happened I had a small, kinked hatchling 2 years back that did not make it. Similar situation; I cut the egg open, and it was inside fully formed but all kinked, kinda like a hair scrunchie, and lifeless. I guess that it is just genetics.. but it still bites. On the flipside, the little ones that you posted that are healthy, are gorgeous.

[TheMolenater2]

Sorry to hear about ur loss...But nice looking healthy babies!

[reptile3]

sorry to hear about those you lost... but the other ones you have, are awesome!!!