I can't believe what I overheard at a show... Talk about power feeding..

[Ivyna J Spyder]

I'd imagine a snake's body is well equipped to deal with the changes that happen when it eats. It'd be pretty silly if an animal was harmed from eating when it was hungry, you know?

The key of course is 'when it's hungry'. We all know how well BPs can be at self regulating if they're NOT hungry...

Is there any difference in the short or long health or longevity of snakes fed more frequently as juvies versus less frequently?

Those studies say eating takes a lot of energy but it does not actually say if it's harmful or not. The only time I can imagine it would be harmful is if you were feeding a snake items that were too small- so it took more energy to digest than was actually in the food. (Sort of like how it takes more energy for us to chew and digest celery than it actually has in it!)

Does anyone have examples of young snakes that were fed appropriately sized prey more frequently (not 'force fed' or 'power fed') and ate only when they were hungry, but had health problems compared to snakes fed less frequently? (Like every 3-4 days vs every 5-7 days) In all seriousness, I'm curious.

[blackcrystal22]

I'd imagine a snake's body is well equipped to deal with the changes that happen when it eats. It'd be pretty silly if an animal was harmed from eating when it was hungry, you know?

The key of course is 'when it's hungry'. We all know how well BPs can be at self regulating if they're NOT hungry...

Is there any difference in the short or long health or longevity of snakes fed more frequently as juvies versus less frequently?

Those studies say eating takes a lot of energy but it does not actually say if it's harmful or not. The only time I can imagine it would be harmful is if you were feeding a snake items that were too small- so it took more energy to digest than was actually in the food. (Sort of like how it takes more energy for us to chew and digest celery than it actually has in it!)

Does anyone have examples of young snakes that were fed appropriately sized prey more frequently (not 'force fed' or 'power fed') and ate only when they were hungry, but had health problems compared to snakes fed less frequently? (Like every 3-4 days vs every 5-7 days) In all seriousness, I'm curious.

Ok, I'm not sure on this so it's a complete opinion!
I think that our humans definition of hunger is quite different from a snakes definition of hunger. See the thing is, they don't have the same kind of subconscious as we do, they have a feeding response right? So when they eat I don't think it's necessarily them telling you 'HEY I'M HUNGRY' but it's just kind of an instinct for them to take anything they can get. Perhaps?

Through common sense, I believe that any amount of stress on their system that doesn't have any time to rest for a few days is probably causing stress on the rest of the body which could lower any animals life span. Stress releases nasty chemicals from the brain, which can make us sick or run us into depression and stuff. I'm not positive, but it seems that it would be similar for animals like bps that have a very sensitive spot for stress?

:]

[branson]

I think what he was saying was that the system is different and overfeeding a child doesn't drain it of a weeks worth of energy like it does for a snake.
:]

I don't even have a BP yet, but have had a couple of snakes in my day. I never tried to power feed my snakes or anything like that, and had a schedule where they ate a meal once per week.

With all that said, I don't think this is an accurate statement. The digestive process wouldn't drain the snake of a week's worth of energy because it's being constantly provided with more energy (i.e., feed every couple of days). I do wonder how the digestive tract (e.g., fluids) keeps up with constant work though.

Just putting that idea out there. The statement really stood out for me and I felt that I should comment on it.

[frankykeno]

I'd imagine a snake's body is well equipped to deal with the changes that happen when it eats. It'd be pretty silly if an animal was harmed from eating when it was hungry, you know?

But that's not the point that eating "harms" a snake. The point is to understand the complexities of what happens to a snake when it does feed so we as captive keepers make smart feeding decisions. Of course eating doesn't "harm" a snake, but it does require massive organ changes, massive draws on energy for that animal. Understanding that process makes the advise that the highly experienced people share here about allowing these snakes reasonable downtimes between feeding even more sensible.

I simply don't understand I guess the need to stuff as much food as you can, as often as possible into an animal that was designed by nature to be an opportunistic, ambush predator. Sure in nature there are times when rodents are very plentiful and they get to eat pretty frequently but over the course of the year that isn't likely to be the norm. For a system designed and evolved to digest in this extreme manner, I just cannot see the sense of overly compressing the feeding cycle hoping to achieve some sort of accelerated growth pattern.

I guess the flip side question I'd propose then is - what are the benefits of feeding more often? If feeding less often (i.e once per week for snakes past hatchling stage) isn't what you do, why do you choose to feed more frequently?

[blackcrystal22]

I don't even have a BP yet, but have had a couple of snakes in my day. I never tried to power feed my snakes or anything like that, and had a schedule where they ate a meal once per week.

With all that said, I don't think this is an accurate statement. The digestive process wouldn't drain the snake of a week's worth of energy because it's being constantly provided with more energy (i.e., feed every couple of days). I do wonder how the digestive tract (e.g., fluids) keeps up with constant work though.

Just putting that idea out there. The statement really stood out for me and I felt that I should comment on it.

If you have read this my statement would've made more sense. ;]
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/208/5/881
I got this information not from my knowledge but from the website posted.

[blackcrystal22]

But that's not the point that eating "harms" a snake. The point is to understand the complexities of what happens to a snake when it does feed so we as captive keepers make smart feeding decisions. Of course eating doesn't "harm" a snake, but it does require massive organ changes, massive draws on energy for that animal. Understanding that process makes the advise that the highly experienced people share here about allowing these snakes reasonable downtimes between feeding even more sensible.

I simply don't understand I guess the need to stuff as much food as you can, as often as possible into an animal that was designed by nature to be an opportunistic, ambush predator. Sure in nature there are times when rodents are very plentiful and they get to eat pretty frequently but over the course of the year that isn't likely to be the norm. For a system designed and evolved to digest in this extreme manner, I just cannot see the sense of overly compressing the feeding cycle hoping to achieve some sort of accelerated growth pattern.

I guess the flip side question I'd propose then is - what are the benefits of feeding more often? If feeding less often (i.e once per week for snakes past hatchling stage) isn't what you do, why do you choose to feed more frequently?

Well you know how to say things better than I do.. thats for sure.

[frankykeno]

Well you know how to say things better than I do.. thats for sure.

Years of practise Jess, far too many years of practise.

[Sloburn]

But that's not the point that eating "harms" a snake. The point is to understand the complexities of what happens to a snake when it does feed so we as captive keepers make smart feeding decisions. Of course eating doesn't "harm" a snake, but it does require massive organ changes, massive draws on energy for that animal. Understanding that process makes the advise that the highly experienced people share here about allowing these snakes reasonable downtimes between feeding even more sensible.

I simply don't understand I guess the need to stuff as much food as you can, as often as possible into an animal that was designed by nature to be an opportunistic, ambush predator. Sure in nature there are times when rodents are very plentiful and they get to eat pretty frequently but over the course of the year that isn't likely to be the norm. For a system designed and evolved to digest in this extreme manner, I just cannot see the sense of overly compressing the feeding cycle hoping to achieve some sort of accelerated growth pattern.

I guess the flip side question I'd propose then is - what are the benefits of feeding more often? If feeding less often (i.e once per week for snakes past hatchling stage) isn't what you do, why do you choose to feed more frequently?

Very well put and hope you know what im doing here. Playing the devils advocate stimluating a good conversation so maybe everyone will learn a little more.

Most people would power feed mostly for their benefit more then the snakes. Like I previously stated who wouldnt like to bred that het lav female as soon as possible. But there was also another point that was made. Yes snakes are oportunistic feeders and although they probly are not able to make a reasonable decision I imagine they know when they are hungry and when they are not. Snakes do not consume much energy other then eating. I imagine part of the reason the heart enlarges when they feed is the fact it needs to move more blood per beat which would make each beat more efficent right? They snakes body does these things naturaly and are more then likely streamlined to consume the amount of food and get the energy needed as well as leave some over to grow. Someone said about feeing the snake smaller meals compaired to larger ones. I imagine larger ones will be more beneficial to the snake several small meals not so much.

I guess my main point is. It boils down to opinions for the most part. Untill there is a study about the benefits and the negative effects its pure specilation(sp?). You are right we only have personal experience to go on when its all said and done.

[Emilio]

One thing I noticed, the articles all mentioned very big meals. The bigger the meal the harder it was on digestion. I think the size of the meal is key we might be putting alot less stress on our snakes if we feed them smaller prey.

[abhorrent]

One thing I noticed, the articles all mentioned very big meals. The bigger the meal the harder it was on digestion. I think the size of the meal is key we might be putting alot less stress on our snakes if we feed them smaller prey.

Not only that - only one article was based on a study using Ball Pythons (our subject of discussion).

Now, while a Burmese Python (the subject of study in the other three articles) are more than likely very closely related to the Ball Python, hence them both carrying the tag 'Python,' I'm sure they aren't exactly the same in bodily function. So as far as I'm concerned, those two articles aren't really of use to us here (unless of course we're talking about Burmese, which we aren't).

I noticed a few things in the study about Ball Pythons on as well.

First and foremost, it never says that this change is strenuous on the snake's body. Sure, you can assume that such a drastic change means that it's body is stressed out, but this may not necessarily be correct.

Second, these snakes were fed once every four weeks! That's vastly different from how often they are fed by most breeders and owners (5-7 days, as opposed to a month). How do we know this change in diet doesn't effect the digestion process?

Third, most (if not all) of the changes that occur during digestion take upwards of two weeks to return to their natural homeostasis. Again, this is twice as long (if not slightly more) than the average captive feeding cycle. Unless you're waiting two weeks or more to feed your python, you're already overfeeding them according to this article.

Basically, these articles aren't that relevant to ball python care, in my eyes anyways.