Questions about kinked caramels and breeding

[Royal Morphz]

Think of this Doc a beautiful carmel but with a dip in her back 3/4 down her body as that snake ages that kink goes deeper (i dont have and but have watch 2 of my friend over time) now think about the egg that has to pass that kink. Ball eggs arent that soft when they are laid so in my thinking the kinked female has a good chance of having trouble passing the eggs and becoming egg bound. They are beautiful but I'd only buy from a reputable breeder and then only buy morphXhet or hetXhet its the hard way but then you are only bettering it for future caramel owners. Just my 2cents

[RandyRemington]

The main questions are:

1. Is it the caramel mutation it's self that causes the tendency to kink?
2. Do any breeders really produce a large number of caramels with low (near normal) percentage of kinks?

As often as caramel kinking is reported, including wild caught animals and after years of outbreeding, I'm afraid it might well be that the tendency to kink is just part of the mutation like the color and can't be bred out. If the kinking where caused by a separate gene and not the caramel mutation it's self surely someone would have separated the two genes by now and produced a kink free line of caramels.

However, all is not lost if #2 is also true. Maybe all caramels have a genetic tendency to kink but some don't, why? Could there by some dietary or incubation setup variable that can greatly reduce how often caramels hatch kinked? It might be something unexpected like an extra vitamin in or not in the rat food or a degree difference in incubation temp.

[BChambers]

Randy-here is how I plan to handle it. If we produce any caramels with fairly major kinks, then they will be humanely euthanized. If very mild kinks, I'll let them go for a greatly reduced price into the pet market. Only perfect caramels or hets will be retained as breeding stock or sold for full market value.

I fully realize this is not a perfect solution-selling mildly kinked animals as "pets" will do little to keep them from eventually breeding. In fact, I'm considering having purchasers sign a "non-breeding" agreement, similar to those seen in the purebred dog and cat community.

It's a challenge, obviously, to do the right thing in this situation. I am encouraged that Bob Clark at least seems to have a "no kink" line of Caramels going!

[snakelady]

Ralph's vid is interesting.
I love Caramels but I would never breed a kinked one. It seems to me that's just asking for trouble genetically speaking.

Don't know if I would put a baby down that is kinked but otherwise doing fine or keep it for a pet??

[grunt_11b]

I thought every line produces kinked animals? Bob must have a brand new line of kink free caramels!...??? That would be great.. I want caramels bad, but haven't gotten any because of the kinking.. Do any of you think that the kinks hurt the saleability (new word??) of caramels??

Alan

[RandyRemington]

Apparently there is something being bred in Africa called the Crider (hope I have that spelled right) which is quite possibly a completely different mutation that just happens to look fairly caramel like but might not have the kink problems.

I don't doubt that kinking has hurt the caramel market. They where out for quite a long time before Ralph Davis posted about the issue so perhaps there where others who would have been happy to keep it under the rug indefinitely.

[PhillyBoyInTN]

If very mild kinks, I'll let them go for a greatly reduced price into the pet market.

You better be very careful who you sell to then. There are a lot of money hungry folks out there that would snatch up a discounted "pet" caramel and breed it like crazy....

[BChambers]

You better be very careful who you sell to then. There are a lot of money hungry folks out there that would snatch up a discounted "pet" caramel and breed it like crazy....

I realize that-that's why I posted that it is not a "perfect solution", and why I mentioned the possibility of making purchasers sign a "no breed" agreement. Obviously, no breeder can totally control what an unscrupulous buyer might do with their animals. But I personally would have big problems putting down a nearly perfect, healthy baby caramel that might do perfectly well as someone's pet.....

[Samuel]

It's a tough issue from all sides. I have to say that I really respect Ralph for being open and honest. He is a great guy for this community and an awesome example of what we should all aspire to be.

[LadyOhh]

Well, I have heard a lot about what needs to be done to produce non-kinked Caramels..

Het to Het, and Caramel to het.. NEVER Caramel to Caramel..

I plan on trying either of those (first two options) with mine this upcoming year, but anyone with more experience can chime in on this??