How can you tell your BP likes you?

[Sonya610]

mooingtricycle give us a synopsis. What was it about?

[darkangel]

Intelligence is still different from emotion. My snakes don't seem to exhibit much of either.

[Sonya610]

Intelligence is still different from emotion. My snakes don't seem to exhibit much of either.

Very true, there are many brilliant sociopaths that feel very little emotion. On the otherhand I do believe many/most emotions are a product of hormones (in all species). To see female BP's protecting their eggs, they feel anxiety over a threat and that is as much emotion as anything.

[littleindiangirl]

Very true, there are many brilliant sociopaths that feel very little emotion. On the otherhand I do believe many/most emotions are a product of hormones (in all species). To see female BP's protecting their eggs, they feel anxiety over a threat and that is as much emotion as anything.

Do they actually feel anxiety? Or do they know what danger is? Is it instinct to wrap the eggs, or is it motivation for fear over the loss of eggs to protect? Or are the doing what the hormones in their bodies tell them to do, drive them to do, make them do without a passing thought as to why they are doing it?

[Sonya610]

littleindiangirl I doubt if they overanalyze it. They feel a strong need to protect, and they do. I think humans are very much the same way, but we like to think we aren't. Hormones are very powerful, humans often use their brains to "justify" their hormone induced feelings.

A couple of years ago I got the chance to watch canadian geese raise their families, they are the most monogamous devoted creatures, such incredibly protective parents. If humans displayed those traits they would be considered morally sound, loving, wonderful and devoted people and all that, but when animals display the same traits it is often just called "instinct." I tend to think hormones have a lot to do with it in either case. : )

[darkangel]

littleindiangirl I doubt if they overanalyze it. They feel a strong need to protect, and they do. I think humans are very much the same way, but we like to think we aren't. Hormones are very powerful, humans often use their brains to "justify" their hormone induced feelings.

A couple of years ago I got the chance to watch canadian geese raise their families, they are the most monogamous devoted creatures, such incredibly protective parents. If humans displayed those traits they would be considered morally sound, loving, wonderful and devoted people and all that, but when animals display the same traits it is often just called "instinct." I tend to think hormones have a lot to do with it in either case. : )

Yeah but don't you see the difference here?? We have the capacity to "overanalyze". A snake does what its genes tell him, and is never educated by anything but what its instincts govern. We're having a discussion about an abstract concept right now. My snake is probably lounging in his own poo with tumbleweeds sailing thru his little brain.

[mooingtricycle]

My snake is probably lounging in his own poo with tumbleweeds sailing thru his little brain.

LOL might want to go check that then!

[Sonya610]

Yeah but don't you see the difference here?? We have the capacity to "overanalyze". A snake does what its genes tell him, and is never educated by anything but what its instincts govern. We're having a discussion about an abstract concept right now. My snake is probably lounging in his own poo with tumbleweeds sailing thru his little brain.

Yes, I see the difference. Though I am not sure in the big scheme of things it really does make a difference, we do the same things animals do we just have wordier justifications for those things.

I guess I just get a bit sensitive when people start saying "intellect" is what matters, or diminishing the unknown experiences of other beings. I am not saying you are diminishing anything, it is not directed at you, but when one can intellectualize that the "other" has no feelings or higher thought it can justify lots of bad things. For me it is not about how snakes perceive things, but about how people do; I don't stress over what snakes might do. : )

[littleindiangirl]

littleindiangirl I doubt if they overanalyze it. They feel a strong need to protect, and they do. I think humans are very much the same way, but we like to think we aren't. Hormones are very powerful, humans often use their brains to "justify" their hormone induced feelings.

A couple of years ago I got the chance to watch canadian geese raise their families, they are the most monogamous devoted creatures, such incredibly protective parents. If humans displayed those traits they would be considered morally sound, loving, wonderful and devoted people and all that, but when animals display the same traits it is often just called "instinct." I tend to think hormones have a lot to do with it in either case. : )

Do humans have the instinct to take care of their young, or is it a drive? Do we have free will or not?

Do mother geese have a choice whether or not they feel like raising some young? Or are their brains and bodies telling them to take defend the small things following them everywhere?

Many times animals get confused as to what they are supposed to be taking care of, this may be a prime example that they don't know what their offspring actually is.

The best example I can think of it the lone lioness that "adopts" baby antelopes. The lioness is confused. She wants to eat the animal, sometimes she toys with it, but her motherly instinct wins and she follows and protects the young calf to death. They literally starve during this time. Eventually either the calves get away from the lioness, are preyed on by other animals, or die from starvation.

[Sonya610]

Do humans have the instinct to take care of their young, or is it a drive? Do we have free will or not?

Not all humans take care of their young either. Is it because they lack intellect? Or instinct? I am stepping out of this debate as of now, the free will comment is something that I don't want to go into.

Thanks for the interesting discussion. : )