Reptile Keeping vs. Reptile Hoarding

[kc261]

To me, the biggest sign of a "hoarder" is that they have more animals than they can (or at least do) take care of properly. It might be 50 dogs or cats, but it might also be just a few. I bet there are some well respected dog &/or cat breeders out there that have that many animals, but I don't think they are hoarders. And I agree that it is most likely some sort of disease. There are people that hoard other things, such as stacks of newspapers that they will never look at or use, but they feel some sort of need to keep them.

Similarly, the biggest sign of a "puppy mill" (or kitten mill, or corn snake mill, etc) is when the animals are bred with the primary concern being the number of animals produced. Puppies that come out of puppy mills often do not look very much like the breed that they are supposed to represent, and may have inherited genetic problems. It seems like it would be possible to produce a large number of snakes while still being careful about the quality, not breeding snakes with problems such as kinks, and even keeping track of which ones are het for what. So I would not consider that a snake mill.

[kc261]

More about hoarding as an illness (not necessarily related to animals)... it is called compulsive hoarding and is thought to be related to OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder. If you want to read a freaky and sad story about what happens when it gets really out of hand...
http://www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding...-of-harlem.php

[anendeloflorien]

More about hoarding as an illness (not necessarily related to animals)... it is called compulsive hoarding and is thought to be related to OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder. If you want to read a freaky and sad story about what happens when it gets really out of hand...
http://www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding...-of-harlem.php

Wow, that is an insane story! I can imagine there being people that act that way towards their reptiles. There was a guy down the street from me once who kept goats in his basement and never got rid of the bodies when they died! They stayed in his basement for years, decaying. But his house was so far back in the woods and no one ever visited there so nobody ever saw or smelled anything. I was about 10 when the guy died and they said when they found his body (after his nearest neighbor said they hadn't seen him in weeks) he had some sort of fungus growing from his chest to the ceiling . So all that to say yes there are plenty of people out there that could conceivably do this type of thing with reptiles but it's not going to be the people that are active in places such as this where actual husbandry and care is discussed.

[Leptile]

Hello all.

First, sorry for my poor English. I'm from Brazil and I can say that here we have both situations. I can not scale that has more on which side. Because it's forbidden to be a "reptile keeper" here in this country (we can only keep Bcc and 2 sp corallus and 1 epicrates), we all have to be "hidden" from the authorities, and do our best to preserve the species, since there are a lot of deforestation and habitat loss and no one in government cares about is what sp kind disappearing or being damaged. It's up to some of us do this work, and still, run the risk of being labeled criminals

About trade, there's a large "black market" (dont know how to say these words in this language). But let's say that most keeps the animals at home in good condition, and just going copulation, and consequently, the sale or exchange.

[patientz3ro]

Casey wins the prize for this round. Hoarding isn't really so much about mammals or reptiles, or even dogs or cats. It's widely considered to be a form of obsessive/compulsive disorder, in that the hoarder is obsessed with something, and that obsession totally dominates their lives. It can be animals, old newspapers, dolls, whatever. I've even worked with one person whose fixation was birds' nests. Regardless of what their focus is, they have a complete inability to resist that compulsion to acquire "just one more," to say nothing of how debilitating it would be for them to give up even the most trivial piece of their "collection". There have also been studies done that show hoarding as an addiction, and when it's treated (which is pretty rare), approaching it as an addiction can be very successful.

There really is no perfect answer for how to make the distinction between a hoarder and a keeper, for the simple reason that the human mind is really not all that well understood. If anyone ever really figures it out, I'd love to get an autographed photo of them accepting the Nobel Prize.

With that said, if I were to try to define hoarding vs. keeping from my own personal perspective, I would say it comes down to the perceived value of the "collection". For example, if you have 300 investment quality morphs, all from different lines and breeders, and adding to your collection is a carefully considered decision that is planned and budgeted for, I think you're probably safe. Chances are, you're taking excellent care of those very expensive animals and you're aware of how adding another will affect your lifestyle. On the other hand, if you come home from an afternoon walk with six alligator lizards, two garter snakes, eleven bullfrogs, and a one eyed snapping turtle named Rufus in your pockets... You might just want to consider the possibility that you have some issues.






On second thought, if you've got 300 investment quality BP's, you need serious professional help NOW. PM me, and I'll give you my address so you can send some to me and we'll get you started on the road to recovery!

[kdreptiles]

Well, let's think about it...

30 cats in one house: WAY too many to be healthy for the cats. Two cats may be able to share that small of a territory, but cats need SPACE. The cats will get stressed from the cramped area, fight, breed themselves to death, cause thousands of dollars of damage to a home, etc. The animals are forced to care for their young with little-to-no adequate resources, in a hoarder situation.

Keeping 30 cages in a rack system, everyone has their own spaces. If we're talking about ball pythons, they simply don't need huge amounts of room.

You simply cannot compare hoarding cats to hoarding snakes. Cats are intelligent, snakes are instinctual. If they have proper husbandry, they are happy. It does not matter how "natural" the setup is or how much attention they get.

I have seen snakes being hoarded. Having so many snakes to each small enclosure that they are forced to lie on top of one another, or many lizards of different species in a small enclosure together. THAT is extreme hoarding for reptiles. It can also be done if they have their own enclosures, if there are more snakes than there is food or veterinary care for them when they need it.

[Kodieh]

I did a paper and speech about this, and hoarding is defined by being unable to care for a large number of animals.

The social "large number" was five and up when I gave my speech two years ago.


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[MasonC2K]

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[Anatopism]

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Some relavent.. and new!... information! http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...rts&id=7973545 states hoarding is soon to be added to the DSM!

[Tfpets]

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WOW! I read through this entire thread and did'nt even notice the dates! I usually pick up on that!