something that has been bothering me lately.....

[littleindiangirl]

Well, I can totally understand if that new person with a few months under their belt was told the exact same things they are now telling other newbies because they had issues and they dealt with them!

How do we know it's all regurged info? I've watched many new people come and go in the year I've been here, and how many have dealt with the same problems? A lot!

Why should anyone giving good sound basic advice have to validate their "experience" or just keep their mouths shut? Who knows if they've tangled with the same issues?

I think it's wrong to think only people with so many years/months of experience is the only one worthy of giving advice. Sometimes, its the newbies who have their trial and errors still fresh in their mind and can understand the frustrations of the new keeper better than some old pros can.


I dealt with some major husbandry issues, and using my own trial and error and advice from this forum, was able to get my tank settled pretty nicely, but later on decided to switch to tubs when our "family" expanded. Did I let other new people know what exactly worked for me and how to do it themselves??? Heck ya I did!

Just because some of it is regurged info doesn't necessarily mean the basics are wrong.

I think a lot of the time it's the tone we set in a thread. I know how difficult it is to not offend someone new to forums, and sometimes they are used to the feel of another forum where flaming and harsh insulting responses are common. We need to remember that.

[Ophiuchus]

I find this is an issue on every forum I've been a member of.

People have to realize that by even asking a question, they already are testifying to their ignorance on that matter. I'll agree with LadyOh in that no one really enjoys being told they're wrong, but part of it is in the delivery. I've seen some newbies get totally flamed and bashed for making a very small error in their husbandry (I've been guilty of it myself in earlier years).

But I do get irritated when people ask for help, receive good advice and then choose not to use it. This is a clear definition of stupidity in my book: a conscious decision to choose not to implement wisdom and knowledge.

I also do get perturbed when people with no experience on a matter claim to be "experts". When I give advice, I try to start off with a disclaimer, somthing to the effect of, "Well, this is just what I've heard~" or "My experience has been~" or "I'm no ___ expert but this is what I know~".....just to make sure people can take what I say with a grain of salt.

[azak323]

Good point to bring up; I don't think some people on here appreciate the help others try to offer and are often disrespectful to the person who has gone out of their way to offer it in the first place. On another note, I think it's a good thing to remind ourselves that we were ALL new at one point, whether it be last week or years ago, and try to relate to those who are going through it currently. (And by no means am I saying I'm not "new" anymore; I've had BPs for only a year now and am fully aware that I have LOADS left to learn. That's exactly why I'm here.)

[daniel1983]

Well, I can totally understand if that new person with a few months under their belt was told the exact same things they are now telling other newbies because they had issues and they dealt with them!

How do we know it's all regurged info? I've watched many new people come and go in the year I've been here, and how many have dealt with the same problems? A lot!

Why should anyone giving good sound basic advice have to validate their "experience" or just keep their mouths shut? Who knows if they've tangled with the same issues?

I think it's wrong to think only people with so many years/months of experience is the only one worthy of giving advice. Sometimes, its the newbies who have their trial and errors still fresh in their mind and can understand the frustrations of the new keeper better than some old pros can.

I dealt with some major husbandry issues, and using my own trial and error and advice from this forum, was able to get my tank settled pretty nicely, but later one decided to switch to tubs when our "family" expanded. Did I let other new people know what exactly worked for me and how to do it themselves??? Heck ya I did!

Just because some of it is regurged info doesn't necessarily mean the basics are wrong.

I think a lot of the time it's the tone we set in a thread. I know how difficult it is to not offend someone new to forums, and sometimes they are used to the feel of another forum where flaming and harsh insulting responses are common. We need to remember that.

You are talking about discussing your own experiences....I am talking regurgitation of others experiences. I can explain the difference if you like.

In most situations, the problem does not arise from keepers (new or old) giving sound advice. The problem comes from keepers giving sound advice without knowing the concepts behind the advice. Speaking from experience never hurts anyone and is very beneficial to the community. Speaking like yours or someone else's experience is the 'word of god' can be offensive and hurtful.

This 'set in stone' approach to distributing reptile care information is the deterant. Saying "You have to do it like this" and "You have the choice to do it like this, this, and this" are completely different.

I agree with the 'tone' statement. That is something that is lost with internet communication and leads to tons of misunderstandings. Facial expression and tone of voice are hard to type

[littleindiangirl]

Alright I see your point, I was thinking you meant someone that has had a snake for a little time cannot retell what they were told to fix their own problems. Like it was automaticly regurged, but I was reading it differently than what you meant.

I understand what your saying now (silly written form of communication!), I have found that many fairly new people to the site are the ones that seem to go overkill when brand new people are seeking advice. Almost to the point of harassment with their "advice", sometimes they do beat the horse.

[Ophiuchus]

People do need to realize that this is a hobby and not a science. There is more than one right way to go about do things.

For instance, I've kept several leopard geckos on sand for years and have never had any problems (of course I feed outsde the cage). Likewise, I personally hate repti-carpet with a passion. However, its not fair for me to tell everyone that they must use sand always and never use carpet. What works for me may nto work for everyone. Many people out there need to remember that when it comes to giving advice.

[kc261]

I'm one of those people that does not have tons of experience, but I will post replies to people asking questions where I am basically just regurging what others have said. To clarify, this does not represent the majority of my posts by any means, but I have done it.

I don't think I'm one of the people that are being referred to though, because I do try to be very careful about how I do it. For one thing, although I don't have years of experience with hundreds of BPs, I do have experience with a wide variety of animals, and some of that applies. I have researched the topic of BPs quite a bit. I have a very good memory for what I have read, so I am unlikely to have read something, misremember it, and then post incorrect advice. If I have any doubts, I either don't post, say in my post I'm not sure, and/or go check (and post a link showing where I got the info if it applies). I also pay attention to the source when I am reading, and keep a vague count of how many times I've seen something posted, so I won't end up regurging something that was said one time by a clueless newbie.

Most importantly, when I'm posting about stuff I don't have personal experience with, I try to make that clear with phrases like "I don't have experience with this myself, but most people recommend..."

While I agree 100% that book learning (or forum learning as the case may be) is not the same as learning from experience, I don't believe that makes it invalid. Daniel makes an excellent point about giving advice without knowing the concepts behind the advice. However, I think it is equally possible to knows something works because you've done it, but still not know WHY it works, and it is to have heard something works, but not know why it works. And, depending on where a person read a particular thing, the concept behind it may have been fully explained.

Many newbies can be "dangerous" (using it in quotes because I'm not referring only to stuff that would actually be dangerous to a snake, but also just misinformation) by acting as if they are experts when answering a question that they themselves were asking a week ago. However, as Connie pointed out, if they have just gone through this particular problem (like getting humidity up in a glass tank, for example), they may in some ways be better equipped to answer the question than someone who hasn't had a BP in a glass tank for years. It would be better if they made it clear in their post "hey I just fixed that problem last week, here's how I did it", but even if they omit that part, it doesn't invalidate what they have to say. Sometimes I've seen some of the very experienced keepers post things that could be "dangerous" because they meant it as a joke and to them it was obvious it wasn't meant seriously. But to a newbie, it might not be so obvious.

I also feel there is an advantage to relative newbies answering some basic questions. Let's be honest, everyone gets tired of answering the same questions over and over again. And also, no matter how many FAQs are posted, there will still be people who ask the questions, and/or need help with fine tuning something. So if a relative newbie gives a good answer and saves someone else the trouble, that's a good thing. The more experienced people will be left with more time to help with the more difficult questions.

To get back to the original point of this thread, it is unfortunately mostly pointless because there will always be people who will ask for advice, then react defensively if it isn't what they wanted to hear and ignore it. And more than 99% of the ones who will do that on this site will never see this thread. It is making for an excellent discussion though.

I think the best we can do, as the bp.net community, is to be as careful as is reasonably possible with the tone of our replies. I believe I've seen somewhere a sort of mission statement for bp.net that says that first and foremost this is supposed to be a site about helping newbies educate themselves in how to care for their snakes. So we should start with the assumption that anyone posting is a newbie who doesn't know better, but does want to learn to take care of their snake in the best possible way. Of course, that won't always turn out to be true, but start with that assumption.

This will cut down on the newbie being overwhelmed with posts that can sometimes come across as "you are an idiot, you shouldn't be doing that", and will instead tend to make the replies they get have a friendlier, more helpful tone. Also when the newbie replies saying "why can't I do that?" it will help us read it in the tone of an honest question seeking information instead of a hostile or defensive tone which may mean something closer to "I'm going to do it anyway".

Whoops! Didn't realize how long this had gotten until I saw it posted.

[missi182]

Everyone has covered this topic incredibly well IMO. Sometimes I feel like I am full of myself telling new members or others "this is what I have done" but all in all, its much better than saying, "this is what you need to do". I am still very new myself and often do repeat the same, very basic information over and over again, which I think is regurgitated information - but not a bad thing.

When I can get opinions or tips from the veterans, I am thrilled, but that isn't always who is online when I have a question (similar to a new member). And just because someone is a new member doesn’t mean they don’t have plenty of experience already.

I think the bad side of regurgitating information is when it has not been used or tested by those who are giving it. Basically, my advice stops at basic set-up and husbandry. If I give advice on anything else, I always make it known that I have not been in the situation personally and to see what others have to say.

When I first joined, I thought I had everything right. When I was told I had it quite wrong - well of course I was defensive, but luckily I smartened up. I am sorry if I have repeated others, but I think these are good points.

Connie, I couldn't agree with you more, but I can't give you anymore rep points

[AzureN1ght]

I love BP.net; this site was one of my primary sources of information in the time leading up to bringing Auryn home. It's a wonderful community with helpful people in it; I'm very grateful for each and every person who took time out of their lives to offer advice/encouragement/comments/critiques when I post. That said, before I brought Auryn home I did a LOT of research, and not just at BP.net. I read multiple housing set-ups on many websites: breeders, independent owners' care sheets, BP.net, etc. I also spoke to the breeder I was purchasing from and ran my potential setup by her before I brought him home.

I think it's important with husbandry to get a variety of perspectives and to go from there. It is the sole responsibility of a potential snake owner to do the research before buying a pet. If that doesn't occur and he/she comes to a place like BP.net to get information, he/she should be willing to take any criticism graciously. He/she should also rectify the lack of research prior to purchase by doing some research on his/her own. Many questions asked on the forum have been answered already (the "search" function on the site is great), and Google is most excellent when one wants to get comparative information.

Just my .02

[Jenn]

Saddly the world we live in is changing so fast. This rude side of people we are seeing is just a part of our changing world. The other day I thanked a young woman for handing me my food at a drive-through and she just turned away without so much as a word.

And last week I went to my local Wal-Mart and the greeter got all pissed at me because I walked in between her and her friend who she was having a conversation with. Nearly every day I am shocked at the new level of rude I experience. I guess we just need to adjust to it.