Small Pups Dying Off

[Jay_Bunny]

Gazelle had a litter of 13 (I thought it was 14 but I guess I miscounted) and now there are only 7 babies left. Six have died and all showed the same characteristics. All were small, thin, and had no milkband. With the 7 that are left, five of them seem small and look thinner than the two chubby ones. There are two pups that are exceptionally chubby and have big milkbands, while the other five have small milkbands and are nearly 70% the size of the two chubby ones. One pup I would say, is even perhaps 50% the size of the two chubby ones. The mother always has food and water and whenever I come into the room she is nursing the babies.

Any ideas on why these babies are dropping like flies? And why only two of them seem normal? I was hoping to keep two from this litter as future breeders, but if things keep going this way, there will only be two left and none for use as feeders.

[frankykeno]

Jay I know you've had another of your female rats very ill recently so it's possible it's something going through your rat colony. Respiratory issues, whether it's a rat or a human, tend to hit the young and the elderly the hardest. I don't have much to offer other than to support the mother as best you can so she can feed whatever babies will survive. I don't know if there's anything you can give her that will go through her milk to them. Your vet (or one of our vet techs here) will likely have that answer.

[littleindiangirl]

I'm not sure either. She may be a poor mother, or the pups may be ill.... I don't know what to tell you. If you had another nursing female I would see if they make it with her, but that also puts the female at risk for any infection if it is indeed an infection afflicting the pinks.

Sorry to hear that.

[Jay_Bunny]

Yes, that rat is currently quarantined and receiving medication. No other rats are showing symptoms, not even the female's cage-mate. The pups are dying maybe 1-2 a day at this rate. The thing is, two of them look perfectly plump and have full bellies, while the others just are not getting enough. Could it be that the two chubby ones are hogging all the milk?

I will keep an eye on them but I'm suspecting at least two more to drop off by the end of today or early tomorrow since they are looking thin just like the ones that have been dying.

[Jay_Bunny]

I do have another nursing mother. Her pups are nearing a week old while these pups are almost 2 weeks old (2 weeks on Saturday). I don't want to risk those pinks if it is in fact illness, though.

[frankykeno]

No they can't really "hog" the milk as she should have enough teats available to nurse them all at this point. As they outsize their litter mates though they are more likely to push them away a bit but the littler ones should still be able to get sufficient milk if she's producing it. When you check her belly do you see her teats exposed (from the action of the pups nursing on them)?

You could try removing the 2 big pups to a warm spot for an hour or two a couple of times a day to try and allow the smaller littermates access to mom without competition. You'd have to make sure the bigger ones have a warm spot with bedding and I'd only pull them for a short while a couple of times a day to see if it made any difference.

[Jay_Bunny]

Yes there are exposed teats. I was thinking of pulling the two larger ones earlier. How warm does this warm spot have to be? Its about 75 in my house right now.

[kc261]

I do have another nursing mother. Her pups are nearing a week old while these pups are almost 2 weeks old (2 weeks on Saturday). I don't want to risk those pinks if it is in fact illness, though.

If I read this correctly, they are about 1 1/2 weeks old right now?

I think from what I've read that they'll start nibbling on solid food right around when their eyes open, which is around 2 weeks of age. So if the problem is with the mom not supplying enough milk, you don't have long to go to get past that. So you could try hand-feeding them if you want.

However, I think it is more likely that they have some sort of birth defect affecting them (does megacolon show up this young?) or they have been affected by the same illness your other rat has.

Joanna's idea of separating the 2 strong ones for brief periods could help with either the "not enough milk" situation or "can't compete due to illness" situation, so if it were me I'd try it. Just be very careful that you don't do it for too long as a time or let them get cold, because that would just make the strong ones susceptible to any possible illness.

As far as getting medicine to them through their mother's milk, I don't think that would work. Based on research I did when I was breastfeeding my daughter, very little in terms of medications gets passed through the milk. I'd assume the same would be true for rats.

[wilomn]

They're feeders, right?

Feed them all off now. That will give the mother at least 3 weeks to recuperate.

If she has the same problem with the next litter, feed her and the male off and get two more.

If you're raising rodents for food you don't really want to take time or money to solve every little problem. Well, maybe you do, but from a cost effectiveness standpoint, if she's not producing she's costing.

Right now she's costing.

I breed between 30 and 40 females pretty consistently and generally have 20 to 50 rats in various stages of growing up. When one of the moms has a problem she's boa food and another is put in to replace her. If she had babies or they were dying off and don't have wet tails, they too are fed off so I don't keep breeding whatever they had.

Some rats just don't do well with babies. Every once in a while I'll get a female that simply isn't up to the job of nursing babies. The girls are kept 3 or 4 to a cage so they always share nursing duties. Some just get skinny, some just have babies that don't thrive. It's not often for as many as I produce but it happens.

They're food. Replace them now and save hassle and heartache later.

[littleindiangirl]

If I read this correctly, they are about 1 1/2 weeks old right now?

I think from what I've read that they'll start nibbling on solid food right around when their eyes open, which is around 2 weeks of age. So if the problem is with the mom not supplying enough milk, you don't have long to go to get past that. So you could try hand-feeding them if you want.

However, I think it is more likely that they have some sort of birth defect affecting them (does megacolon show up this young?) or they have been affected by the same illness your other rat has.

Joanna's idea of separating the 2 strong ones for brief periods could help with either the "not enough milk" situation or "can't compete due to illness" situation, so if it were me I'd try it. Just be very careful that you don't do it for too long as a time or let them get cold, because that would just make the strong ones susceptible to any possible illness.

As far as getting medicine to them through their mother's milk, I don't think that would work. Based on research I did when I was breastfeeding my daughter, very little in terms of medications gets passed through the milk. I'd assume the same would be true for rats.

Very good points, I thought these animals were less than a week old. I must not have read good enough.