cool thanks. i did not want to hijack his thread but i always found it interesting that so many people are so insistent on having hides. i also think that it is interesting that larger breeder/keepers often times do not do things "by the book" all the time and often adapt and try different things. i think everyone would be better off trying new things and just do like what you said, let there animals sort of show them what they like and want. i appreciate your time and sorry giaach.