Large vs Small Breeder

[Entropy]

First and foremost I look for animals I like. If I find one I then start researching the breeder/seller. I check out the BOI. Do a general google search on them and usually ask for references that I DO follow up on.
In some cases I don't do these things because they already have a lot of good feedback. I do now however ask everyone what methods they use for shipping. The one time I didn't think to ask because it was a relatively well known breeder I got DHL shipping, *shudder* and though the snake arrived safe and sound I don't want that fright again.

I am not one for phone calls. In fact, I've talked on the phone with only three people that I've purchased from. I prefer all the communication to be in the form of emails so that both our hind ends are covered in the event of catastrophe.
If a breeder has a website I prefer to see photos of the exact animals they have for sale instead of a 'price list' or 'example' animals. And I like it to be up to date. Nothing more frustrating than inquiring on a snake only to find out it sold months before and in fact they have nothing available at this time. Grrrr
Also, if they refuse to send additional photos when you're inquiring or just say 'they are just normals or some such nonsense' I will not do business with them, why should I bother when they obviously don't care enough to put in some effort?
The size of the breeder doesn't make a lot of difference to me. I'm quite willing to try out an 'unknown' just as long as I get good vibes and their animals appear to be in great health. I won't purchase from anyone who doesn't care about their animals.

[Westcoast]

I believe as small breeders we have to be creative in marketing our animals. That doesnt mean to be misleading just offering services that maybe a large breeder cant do . Advertise the fact that due to your smaller collection your able to actively monitor each and every animal daily. Advertise that you breed your own rats for quality controll. Due to the fact you have a smaller collection be very selective in your breeding stock in an attempt to breed for quality not quantity. Use your small collection as an advantage. Deliver the best quality animal with a fair guarantee with the best customer service possible. Return Emails daily , Answer your phone promptly , carry a cell when possible, Be there for your customers when problems arise. Go the extra mile when shipping . As for the big boys , These guys paved the way for us and have put down some big cash for unproven projects. These guys have created the market that we all enjoy! When it comes to hets I would be very selective who I buy from. My hats off to all those breeders that have made this such a awsome hobby. Good luck to all you breeders big and small! Bryan

[Beardedragon]

I agree with Brian in that character counts far more to me than the size of their collection or volume of sales. That said, I tend to support small and mid size breeders (like me) that tend to have more invested in every individual animal they produce. Also, for me, I tend to feel that you sometimes can get better service and a better overall experience from those that do it as a side hobby and aren't so dependent on making x amount of sales a month. That is not to say there aren't big breeders out there with sterling reps and high quality, Of course there are. I, personally, just like the connection that is formed when you deal exclusively with a smaller group of people who are more likely to remember you and get in touch occasionally to inquire how things are going. In the end, it comes down to whether I find you to be honest and trustworthy (it also helps if you have smoking hot animals ha ha)

My .02

Cheers,
Kat

As said before, i think emails are very important. If i email one of the huge breeders out there asking about something, and get a email three days later( for me, ive had to wait as long as a week!) , i will have found someone else to deal with. As for Jane, it was same day responses with long caring emails, i could tell she cared for her snakes and never once second guessed her. With the other breeder i was talking to at first, i got a incomplete sentence reply that wasn't very helpful and took forever to get to me- Once you have 500+ reptiles, do you really have the time to take as much care as a small time breeder does?

Its also a great break to smaller breeders, they need the rep and are a lot better to deal with most of the time.

The only time i feel i have to deal with bigger breeders is if im buying hets, or adult normals to insure im not getting anything extra, or less.

Matt

[neilgolli]

Seems like the small time guys that get into this now will be forever playing catch up.

Many great things have already been touched on here, I'd like to address just briefly the quote above Rich as I actually believe this is a common misconception.

Do you have any idea the number of normals that I have, that adam has, that Brian has? When we all got into this, morph females were 10K +. While we all have nice collections (and must ultimately bow down to Brain) I know that I've got 5 to 10 times more normal females than hets or morphs. Because of the number of breeders, because of the number of offspring produced, someone new to the market today can put together quite the collection of the highest quality animals and in just a few years be breeding nothing but visual to visual or double visual to double visuals. With customer service, LOVE for the animals and dare I say it PASSION anyone can even today, start small raise quality animals and build a small business or successful hobby to the level that they desire.

The one item that I will caution people on is to buy from someone that you can trust but also from someone who can replace an animal in the event that something does go wrong. The fact that we are finally building a real industry, breeders, wholesalers, retailers is truly great, however I see way to many people today reselling animals that they are buying on credit cards or just over extending themselves on and they need to sell it. These individuals scare the hell out of me as they are one shipping error away from (not intentionally) screwing someone. Many of these guys on KS right now would have no way of replacing an animal in the event that Fedex screwed up, the heat pack failed or the animal just died, IT DOES HAPPEN. So check references, ask questions and buy wisely. If a breeder does not have time for you, find someone who does. You don't need your next breeder tomorrow spend the time to find the right animal from the right breeder for you....


PS, sorry this was so long

[stangs13]

Some bigger breeders also can't feed babies as freqent as a smaller breeder with fewer babies can. Like corns from a big breeder are so much smaller than a corn from a breeder of smaller scale. But that doesn't go for every breeder.

[Westcoast]

Many great things have already been touched on here, I'd like to address just briefly the quote above Rich as I actually believe this is a common misconception.

Do you have any idea the number of normals that I have, that adam has, that Brian has? When we all got into this, morph females were 10K +. While we all have nice collections (and must ultimately bow down to Brain) I know that I've got 5 to 10 times more normal females than hets or morphs. Because of the number of breeders, because of the number of offspring produced, someone new to the market today can put together quite the collection of the highest quality animals and in just a few years be breeding nothing but visual to visual or double visual to double visuals. With customer service, LOVE for the animals and dare I say it PASSION anyone can even today, start small raise quality animals and build a small business or successful hobby to the level that they desire.

The one item that I will caution people on is to buy from someone that you can trust but also from someone who can replace an animal in the event that something does go wrong. The fact that we are finally building a real industry, breeders, wholesalers, retailers is truly great, however I see way to many people today reselling animals that they are buying on credit cards or just over extending themselves on and they need to sell it. These individuals scare the hell out of me as they are one shipping error away from (not intentionally) screwing someone. Many of these guys on KS right now would have no way of replacing an animal in the event that Fedex screwed up, the heat pack failed or the animal just died, IT DOES HAPPEN. So check references, ask questions and buy wisely. If a breeder does not have time for you, find someone who does. You don't need your next breeder tomorrow spend the time to find the right animal from the right breeder for you....


PS, sorry this was so long

Great point neil!
To have great customer service you need to have the capitol or animals available in this situation.

[Entropy]

I'm bumping this up to see if we can get more responses. Some of the posts, Neils' especially give you serious food for thought.

[Tosha_Mc]

Neil - perhaps I'm reading this wrong but are you saying that if a small breeder doesn't have a replacement animal in the event that something goes wrong during shipping that would be considered screwing someone? Why would replacement be the only option - why couldn't they just refund the money and you could buy from someone else?

[Spaniard]

I just want to clarify that I don't truly feel like the little guy will always be playing catch up, it was more of a thought I wanted to hear some feedback on so thanks to Neil as he is the only one that touched on it.

You're absolutely correct Neil with enough capitol to invest someone new could produce quality animals and start seeing a profit relatively quickly within a few years.

I really don't see my hobby growing in this manner and when I meant catch up I meant people who are starting from scratch with a handful of snakes like myself that plan to re-invest whatever money is made back into projects. Thats not to say that I don't think it is possible because I believe anything is possible given time, effort, and dedication.

After most of the posts I've read here though I've changed my point of view and agree with the statements made that the playing field has somewhat leveled off between the bigger guys and the smaller guys.

The only thing I don't agree on is the whole ability to replace the animal if something were to go wrong. I agree with you 100% that smaller breeders need to be prepared for this situation but like mentioned above how would refunding the person's money not be a fair means of compensation?

If a buyer comes to me when I have animals to sell from my first clutch I plan on telling them that in the event that something were to happen I would only be able to refund them their money as opposed to replacing the animal.

What does everyone think, would this be the right way to go about this situation? Would anyone be ticked off or think negatively of someone who could not replace an animal but could refund the money paid within a timely manner?

[LadyOhh]

It would be your perogative to offer what you can in that situation.

If the person is ticked off, refund and try and help him/her find what they are looking for thru your own connections to replace the animal.

There are plenty of ways to make things right if things go wrong.