breeding the youngsters!!

[jknudson]

From what I've been told and have seen most breeders will do the 2 years old and 1200+ grams before even thinking of putting that female in to breeding. It's quite dangerous when you over feed a young snake like that and then highly dangerous for that snake to be breeding at that age. It's known that young snakes like that do hold a high rick of becoming egg bound and or dieing. Why not just hold those girls back for another year or two? Why put their lives in danger? Just a bit to risky in my eyes.

It works for him, I give him kudos for having the balls to try it and see what works for him. Just from reading Jas' posts I can tell he must be deeply in tune to each and every one of his animals, and I'm sure if he deemed it unsafe to breed a particular animal he wouldn't. I really think we all need to step back before jumping all over him about his breeding practices.

Isn't it also true that if a female wasn't ready or mature enough to reproduce she wouldn't even develop follicles/eggs, or just plain slug out. I understand there could always be a threat of a small female becoming egg bound...but a BIG overweight female could become egg bound just the same.

Do what works! It is one thing to read about doing something...it is another to have first hand experience doing so.

Rock on John!

Jason

[Kara]

The boys, sure. Not so much on the girls, but there are plenty of those here anyway, so no need to gung-ho them.

Just like anything else within the realm of herpetoculture, understanding one's snakes and their respective boundaries is a HUGE part of keeping them. It requires daily interaction & having a feel for what an animal can & cannot do at any particular point in its life, whether it is eating a huge meal, breeding, moving to a bigger enclosure, etc.

It's all about building experience! What is it going to take each of us to get from Point A (starting out @ whatever point) to Point B (more experienced)? And at what cost?

The welfare & well being of our animals is paramount...after that, it's up to us to understand so the rest can fall into place.

Just my $.02.

P.S. I live with the master of unorthodox...but not unorthodox at the expense of an animal's best interests. It's all relative.

[JLC]

Beautifully said, Kara!! (As usual!! )

I'd like to add this note to this thread:

This forum is primarly about helping those new to the hobby to learn how to keep and care for their animals...and once they get comfortable with that...maybe they can consider breeding and learn the basics of that here as well.

While we all know there are many different ways of keeping these beautiful animals, what we try most to impart here are the methods that are the simplest and most proven methods to have a successful experience. Every choice we make carries risks....our job is to minimize those risks as best we can. The more we personally know from our own experiences, the more we can step outside that box with minimal risks.

SO...for the new person just wanting to learn and understand how to breed their snakes....please, please don't point them to this thread. While John's methods are fascinating to discuss, they are NOT the norm, and they carry much higher risks for the uninitiated than the more standard methods of breeding we tend to endorse.

I would liken' John's thread here to the professional stunt men who make fun shows for us to watch on TV. "Don't try this at home...we are highly trained professionals and know what we're doing....you'd likely get your head ripped off if you tried it!"

[JASBALLS]

The boys, sure. Not so much on the girls, but there are plenty of those here anyway, so no need to gung-ho them.

Just like anything else within the realm of herpetoculture, understanding one's snakes and their respective boundaries is a HUGE part of keeping them. It requires daily interaction & having a feel for what an animal can & cannot do at any particular point in its life, whether it is eating a huge meal, breeding, moving to a bigger enclosure, etc.

It's all about building experience! What is it going to take each of us to get from Point A (starting out @ whatever point) to Point B (more experienced)? And at what cost?

The welfare & well being of our animals is paramount...after that, it's up to us to understand so the rest can fall into place.

Just my $.02.

P.S. I live with the master of unorthodox...but not unorthodox at the expense of an animal's best interests. It's all relative.

Really I am leaving after this post.. LOL! Kara, you live with the master of unorthodox? I mainly attend the forum of the King himself RDR. Yet both the master and King do things different then The Queen (Tracy).. These three Remarkable breeders do things different. Why cant I? All my stuff is in Top notch health, They feed, they eat, they breed.. My wife even baths them? (crazy lady lol).. I guess my question is, Do I have to have 30 years of breeding, 10,000 snakes, And write a book before I can post what works for me? No Offence Kara, I love ya!!

[stangs13]

My poor little bitty 06 girl lol. Jas, will you let me in on your secret?

[BT41042]

I hope you stick around Jas...You know I love you brother and I know exactly what your saying...Keep on doing what your doing brother...I know I will -
BT

[JoshJP7]

I'm not trying to start an argument as this is a serious question... What is your reasoning for breeding them so young? I dont disagree that it works and can be done safely... I am just curious as to why you choose to do so.

[BT41042]

I'm not trying to start an argument as this is a serious question... What is your reasoning for breeding them so young? I dont disagree that it works and can be done safely... I am just curious as to why you choose to do so.

If you don't disagree that it works and can be done safely - Then why do you choose to not do it? IMO - You are looking for an argument -
BT

[Petboy15]

I love you Jas!!! One day, I wanna meet up with you and pick your brain, dude. 07 girls breeding...

Congrats man

[MarkS]

I think what Judy is trying to say is that you have to learn what you're doing first before you can start experimenting. There are several right ways of doing things, just as there are several wrong ways and what works well for one may not work at all for another.

Some of the best teachers on how to take care of these animals are the animals themselves. But before they can teach you how best to care for them, you have to learn how to understand what they are saying and this can take a long time. Going slowly and proceeding with caution while keeping your eyes and mind open are much safer ways for the novice. You have to learn to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run.

Eventually you'll find out what works for you, then you can start experimenting to find out what works even better.

However, not EVEYRONE here is a novice, and unless you hear some differing viewpoints and techniques, how can you know to try them yourself? I think that this is where the real value of open discussions on these forums are.

One of the reasons I like this forum is because it seems that most people here tend to be more tolerant and open minded. There are already plenty of forums where there are a few experts whose word is law and if you don't do things the way they think it should be done you're obviously a horrible person who shouldn't own snakes ***cough cough kingsnake cough cough*** I would really hate to see that happen here just because someone has opinions or experiences that are different from 'the norm'

Mark