Feedback on Rat Communal Mothering

[frankykeno]

Well I'm pretty much done experimenting with different combinations of communal mothering with the rats. This is just my personal take on it and the results I've seen with my own rats.

I used a number of female pairs. They were bred so they would deliver quite close to each other and went in together to breed with the same male in a large tub that would be sufficient for when they delivered their litters. I particularily tried to pick experienced mothers who get along well with each other. I left the male in until I observed both females were pregnant than simply removed the male.

Across the board I'm not terribly impressed with my results doing it this way rather than 1 female per 10 gallon like I usually do. I found for the first time I lost some newborn pinks to exactly what Becky warned me about....skin damage from mother's stealing them back and forth. I also had a few almost lost because they got dropped between nests and got sort of lost in the shuffle. I feel the females were acting stressed and competitive over the babies, defensive over their nesting areas, etc. I also noted a few females that did not carry their fair share of nursing so the other female nursed far too many babies. Lastly, I didn't like that I could not track a litter for any health or genetic issues because they were all mixed up together.

What I've started to do this past week is to find a place sort of between my old way and the communal way. The new procedure I'm doing is to put each female in her own 10 gallon tank as soon as she shows pregnacy. She delivers there and raises her babies until their eyes are open. Once the babies are all active pups they are going in with her breeding buddy female and her pups in huge rubbermaid bins my husband hauled home for me.

I think this way I can still track my litters as I like to do, have better control of genetic issues as you usually see a problem if it's there by the time they are 15 days old and avoid the issue of some many tubs and overcrowded 10 gallon tanks. Those 10 gallons get pretty crowded with a female and her fast growing big litter of pups.

This communal mothering after 15 days post-birth seems to be working out nicely so far though it's early days yet. The pups are big enough to suffer no injury from the two females, they certainly seem to enjoy the socialization of more pups to wrestle with and the females are acting very relaxed after the initial settling in together period. This also allows me to cycle my available 10 gallon birthing tanks far faster than before.

Now if I could avoid the the blisters on my fingers from cutting and melting these darn huge bins and all the wire that's needed for them. I just did another bin today and I've got some "ouchies" LOL Mike keeps telling me to leave him to do the heavier cutting parts but I'm stubborn and impatient (and hate working in work gloves).

[Freakie_frog]

Joe that sounds great!!

[frankykeno]

Thanks Ed, I'll report back again once I've watched how this new way goes along with time.

For any special litters...like ones I'm looking for a specific color or pattern result...or from a mother whose retiring that I specifically want a few of her daughters from...they will not go into communal mothering as I want them kept seperate. Other than that we're going to try this with all the future litters.

I'm also trying a side mesh on these big long new tubs rather than a lid one for ventilation. I can get more square inches of ventilation that way, I can get cross ventilation which I can't with my current lid mesh cut outs and I can stack these bins or place them on a big rack without interfering with the rats fresh air needs. I'll let you know how that's going as well.

I need a dang new camera! lol

P.S. It's Jo hon, Joe is for boys LOL

I should add of course that this isn't a feasible system for anyone breeding 100's and 100's of rats. For me and the needs we have I think it'll work out fine though.

[recycling goddess]

i love how much information you share with us all jo.

you rock!!!

[ivylea77]

I'm glad you shared this. I tried to do exactly what you did and leave the pregnant mothers together. I also came up with the same results. I lost some babies that otherwise would have been fine. I noticed as well that one mother would take over all duties and would seemingly be overwhelmed. I had to do quite a few search and rescues and even relocate babies to other moms that were on the verge of weaning their previous litter so that all babies would be taken care of. It made it very difficult to keep track. I am now back to taking out the prego mom and isolating them.

[Freakie_frog]

Yea I know JO

I do it both ways and I'll tell you why. First time mothers I put in a 10gal tank to raise their young. By first time mothers I mean moms that have not give birth to and raised a litter of pups. I have noticed that in a communal environment tend to abandon their litters to continue being a social rat. Where as after talking to you and Monica Bailey after their first litter I pull the pregos out and they birth in a tub with other pregos.

Now the second or third time mothers in the birthing tubs are amazing. Its like a freaking daycare in there. All the pink are in one big pile in the corner. When it comes time for them to feed the moms just go and get ever how many pups they can feed..feed and go back and get more. I have 40 pinks in one tub with 5 moms and no clue who's babies are who's.

[frankykeno]

Thanks Leeshie!

Well I'm contining to fiddle about with the rat colony. Just got another big tub set up with Mike's help so we are rocking along with the redo of the rats.

Glad it's working out for you Ivy and you Ed. Just goes to show there's many ways to end up with a good result.

I can't wait to meet Monica, Ed. I think she'll go nuts with all my rat questions LOL.

[littleindiangirl]

That's a really good idea Jo! Any pics yet? How big is the screened area on the tubs? and is there anyway that is would be messy with some rats kicking it up and tumbling around? Or is it high enough for that? Ah! Awesome, cant wait to see it finished.

[catawhat75]

I have done only communal litters so far and other than one instance where a female ate the other moms babies I have had no issues. Everyone does their fair share of mothering from what I see and I have not lost any babies or see any marks from being moved around alot. We have a couple tubs where the moms share one big pile o babies and one tub where there are two seperate nests. Glad to see you are finding what works best for you and your ratties Jo and giving us feedback on it.

[tigerlily]

I just finished my first stab at communal mothering, and I noticed a lot of marks on my babies. I didn't lose any, but the poor things took a bit of a beating. I think I prefer them solo on delivery, as the mom seems less stressed and they babies have less marks.