Spins and shakes in Spiders - Genetic Connection?

[MATT FISHER REPTILES]

On a side note: I would definately think that doms would be much less inbred than recessives. Hets are not needed; Pastels and Spiders are bred to normals of unknown lineage all of the time.. so I see little inbreeding in them at present time!

if i am not mistaken wernt all spiders from one captive one that nerd had?

gen that is a nice spider. he is hot

[AzureN1ght]

I'm not sure if Kara's going to chime in on this thread, but she and I were talking about this issue last Spring and she said at the time that she thought the whole "all spiders spin" thing wasn't correct. She wasn't denying that -some- spiders spin, but she didn't think that all of them do.

Kara can speak for herself, of course, and I hope she does Just thought I'd add that.

[Holbeird]

Even if all of the spiders were from one that NERD had, that still wouldn't account for inbreeding. If Nerd had one spider, they'd breed it to normals and get more spiders and know that it was Dom or Co-Dom then they don't need to breed those back to parents unless they were checking to see if they were co-dom and had a super form.

Either way. I've seen a spider or two with bigger spinning issues and I must admit it's a sad sight. I haven't had enough to be able to agree with some of the other breeders that all exhibit this behavior.

Either way, I'll be looking to breed spiders in because one of my favorites is a lesser-bee

[dr del]

Hi,


Quick question.

I understand the refusal to breed from a spider that shows a noticeable problem with this but is there actally any evidence that they would produce offspring more likely to do it than those with a barely noticeable head tilt?

Don't misunderstand me I fully stand by the idea of only using the best breeding stock you can and attempting to eradicate any "undesirable traits" that show up. I just wondered if that hold true in this case or if the problem is like the amount of white in piebalds and low can throw high and high can throw low.


dr del

[Royal Tartan]

this topic has intrigued me for a cple o' years ! here's my thoughts on it ..... inbreeding ? cant see how given whats already known about spider gene ..ie breed to normals get more spiders/normals so can be out crossed to a great degree , using different normals with the new spiders. Expanding a gene pool not reducing it .

I am wondering if its actually more like say the eyesight in albinoism ...ie weaker sighted animal that normal. Let me explain , I once came across a friend that had a spider that would loop the loop. Twas like losing its balance to a degree , BUT when ever it was near natural light . it seemed fine . rited itself ok , and remained steady !

Got me thinking if there is not maybe some sort of photo reaction going on inside eyes ?

Of course I could be talking complete 'balls ' here ( pardon the pun ! ) just wanted to throw a thought into the discussion .

Either way its gonna take a lot of time for a lot of people to accept ( or maybe not ) that they do in fact spin/wobble/loop. Hidden genes ? gotta love em !

[Chuck]

When I said:Rock on guys breed em till the bottom falls out. That was being totally sarcastic. I really am disappointed in some of the responces I got. Don't get me wrong I am glad people are willing to participate. It seemed to me like there was a lot of pushing it off to the side for how Great spiders are. I am not saying they are not a great morph but I called it a nurological disorder and I got told that was an asumption and for someone to correct them if they were wrong. Maybe I am wrong but it sounds like not to many other people know what there talking about either. I know there is plenty of work going on with spiders right? I think Dr Del has some good questions there. I guess I just don't like the some spin some wobble, and they all do, wait only some do, but they are a great morph so just like em and be happy. I am not trying to be a jerk, I was just hoping for information pertaining to this "disorder" and less opinion.


Chuck

[kavmon]

"who" is to say what is a desirable trait and what is a defect? who determines what is right/wrong to breed?
some purists think all morphs are "wrong" abnormalities on nature...



vaughn

[J.Vandegrift]

"who" is to say what is a desirable trait and what is a defect? who determines what is right/wrong to breed?
some purists think all morphs are "wrong" abnormalities on nature...



vaughn

I don't see how anyone could consider this a "desirable trait", but I do agree that no one should be able to tell others if it is right or wrong to breed them. I personally won't breed them, but I would never try to force my opinions on others. If only some of them did this I would probably breed them. For me, if there was at least a pretty good chance to get a normal one I would probably breed them. That is why I finally broke down and decided to get into caramels. Even though kinking is a problem it seems like most of them come out healthy and kink free.

To Ginevive: If you watch your snake at night under a red light and you know what to look for you will probably see that he is a little off. It sounds like you got lucky though and probably got one with a very minimal case because if you saw one with a bad cease there would be no missing it.

[J.Vandegrift]

cease

supposed to be *case*

[MATT FISHER REPTILES]

"who" is to say what is a desirable trait and what is a defect? who determines what is right/wrong to breed?
vaughn

i kind of see your point. but for the most part. who determines what is right and wrong are all the other ball pythons that do not have this problem. we are not talking about all ball pythons here we are talking about breeding animals that cant hardly move. it would be like saying i breed dogs with two legs. they move relly funny but it is cute and in no way wrong to keep breeding them. you have to take into account quality of life of the animal. i dont care if it can eat/ sleep/ screw/ grow/ reproduce. it is still messed up and to say otherwise is putting the almighty dollor before these animals. wich are being brought in to the world by captive breeding. not wild breeding. in the wild a animal that had bad wobbles and could hardly move would be eaten by another animal quick. hince why there has only ever been one wc spider. the rest proabbly get eaten by preadtors as they are to busy being cute and wobbling to escape.

dont get me wrong i am not for not breeding spiders at all. i just believe that spiders that show any signs of wobbles should be kept as pets only and not breed

but at the end of the day you are right it is a personal choice. if me/you anyone decides to breed 2 leged dogs that is a personal choice.