Guess I should have expected this...

[Ginevive]

Right on! Nature.. predators and prey.. need I say more!

[stangs13]

I kind of have a problem with your response, and theres too. I have had both animals mice, and rats as pets, and they are one of the most sociable things, besides dogs, I have ever had .I found out snakes were for me, so i decided to to add 2. And I knew they ate mice and rats, but it is nature, and dang, have you ever seen a calf? The cutest things EVER! But i can still eat them, and will, that helps with the feeding of the cute and helpless baby mice and rats...lol. The way they put cattle, mice, rats, etc down, is humane. So they do die in pleasant circumstances...if you make it that way. You maybe should have stated that you would feed FT, if your snake would eat it.

Either way, very great emails by both, full of info, so it didn't sound like she didn't know what she way talking about for the most part. but kudos to you!


Opinion Stangs13 2007(C)

[darkangel]

I kind of have a problem with your response, and theres too. I have had both animals mice, and rats as pets, and they are one of the most sociable things, besides dogs, I have ever had .I found out snakes were for me, so i decided to to add 2. And I knew they ate mice and rats, but it is nature, and dang, have you ever seen a calf? The cutest things EVER! But i can still eat them, and will, that helps with the feeding of the cute and helpless baby mice and rats...lol. The way they put cattle, mice, rats, etc down, is humane. So they do die in pleasant circumstances...if you make it that way. You maybe should have stated that you would feed FT, if your snake would eat it.

Either way, very great emails by both, full of info, so it didn't sound like she didn't know what she way talking about for the most part. but kudos to you!


Opinion Stangs13 2007(C)

Yeah I understand what you mean. I understand why feeding thawed could be a good solution. For right now, I have at least 2 picky snakes and for me, the convenience is just to feed them all the same thing. I guess I just don't get why for some people, it's a crime for it to occur for an animal in captivity, when in nature, the same darn thing happens on the daily. Whether I feed live or not, a rat died to feed my snake.

[stangs13]

Whether I feed live or not, a rat died to feed my snake.

Yep.*nods*

[GirDance]

I guess I just don't get why for some people, it's a crime for it to occur for an animal in captivity, when in nature, the same darn thing happens on the daily. Whether I feed live or not, a rat died to feed my snake.

And whether you had the snake, or the snake lived in the wild something had to die to feed it.

Now, I somewhat understand the feelings of the person who responded, but at the same point I don't believe that they had a point at all. As someone who's owned rats as pets, having to feed a live rat to my future pet was a big thing I had to come to terms with... I knew that you could feed frozen, but I also knew from research that many wouldn't eat them. Then one day I realized that 1. It was a natural hunter/prey food chain; 2. If done right, it was not cruel - I do believe there are people out there who make it about cruelty and ruin it for the rest of us; 3. No, it isn't for everyone but that's why not everyone owns snakes as pets.

Now, what annoys me are those who feel the need to point out 'how wrong it is' to others and try to jam their own feelings and beliefs down your throat - and especially when they have no actual clue about what they are talking about.

I have a very strict vegan friend, animal rights supporter (hates the term activist) all the way... When I talked to him about this sort of thing his basic beliefs were that 1. most of the captive bred snakes are being driven out of their own habitats and are becoming endangered; 2. it's a natural order of things which doesn't involve plotting out massive lots of land and destroying natural habitats to produce food (he means cattle here); 3. responsible owners aren't about cruelty to the 'rodents' they are about ensuring that the animals which they are keeping are kept in the best possible health.

It was actually one of the best conversations about the subject as I was initially worried about the response he was going to give me... At the end, he said, "Hey, look at the crap my cat eats... Lets not even go there".

[Argentra]

"Now, what annoys me are those who feel the need to point out 'how wrong it is' to others and try to jam their own feelings and beliefs down your throat - and especially when they have no actual clue about what they are talking about."

A-bleepin-men! That annoys me whether they're talking about animal rights, religion, or sports! All it takes is just a bit of effort and time to research and gain understanding...but no...
Amazingly, I also have a few vegan friends who are not extremists. Conversations with them are intelligent and insightful and we often exchange new info and ideas. It is, after all, possible to be against animal cruelty and still eat meat, wear leather, and feed your pets what's natural for them.

[Shadowspider]

Yeah I understand what you mean. I understand why feeding thawed could be a good solution. For right now, I have at least 2 picky snakes and for me, the convenience is just to feed them all the same thing. I guess I just don't get why for some people, it's a crime for it to occur for an animal in captivity, when in nature, the same darn thing happens on the daily. Whether I feed live or not, a rat died to feed my snake.

I asked a "furry protector" (that's what I call them) this one day and you know what they told me?
"I know that's what they eat in the wild, but they have packaged kibble for dogs, cats, ferrets, birds and just about every other animal that eats meat, so why can't they come up with a "snake chow"?"
Now aside from that being completely obsurd, I told the lady,
"Well, do you know how all of those processed, packaged pet foods are made and what they're made from? Do you have any problem with rats, mice, rabbits, baby chicks, etc. being killed and made into snake chow.... if anyone could figure out how to do so in a manner in which a snake would actually eat it?" I didn't even go into the whole explanation of how snakes are NOT dogs, cats or ferrets and how they do not hunt, kill and consume their prey in even remotely the same fashion.

She also said, "well, I know that's what they eat in the wild, but I don't have to SEE them doing that in the wild". To which I said "well, you don't have to SEE them do it at my house either!"

I have to comment on this too, I found it just too funny:

I get reactions like that quite a lot since I happen to wear a pentacle around my neck all the time. It's not nearly as bad here in Denver as it was in Texas, but I still get those who try and 'convert' me...and if they see me with a snake or overhear that I have snakes, oh boy. Heck, just talking about picking up feeders or bringing my feeder mice home on the bus, I've had people like that try and start in on me.

Oh good lord y'all, get your pitch forks and hang the rope over the old oak tree... she's a cookin' up mice in her culdron to sacrifice to her evil serpents during the witching hours! LOL
I can't stand people like that who feel as though it is their "duty" to try and "save" you from yourself.
Heck, I'm a "religious, bible beliving, Sabbath keeping" type and even I get condemed for keeping "the devil's creatures" in my home.

[Argentra]

"Oh good lord y'all, get your pitch forks and hang the rope over the old oak tree... she's a cookin' up mice in her culdron to sacrifice to her evil serpents during the witching hours!"

ROTFL!!!
That was the greatest! I simply have to keep a record of that one!

Hmm, snake chow... yeah right. It's hard enough to get them to eat FT!
Don't you just love the ideas some people come up with. It's like when this person overheard me talking about the zoo animals and the fact that the big cats eat a special carnivore diet. They just spoke up saying they were glad zoos had it "right" and didn't feed them real animals. I think he thought it was some sort of dried kibble. The look on his face when I mentioned that the diet is mostly fortified fresh ground meat... priceless. And of course, I had to add that the meat was from a plant that properly and humanely dealt with the animals...before he recovered enough to start wailing at me for supporting that.

[frankykeno]

The problem with reacting the way you did, with some obvious anger, is that you are simply reinforcing a belief system that says that people that own snakes and feed live are either:

1) sicko's that get a thrill out of watching rats die as horribly as possible
2) just wierdo freaks with quick tempers who don't care
3) they don't care about their snakes safety

That last one is a belief system even within our own ranks of snakekeepers, as evidenced by the constant live vs f/t threads on every snake forum online every day of the week.

I think the only way to deal with this is either ignore that kind of thing and go about your business. If you know what you do is right, then you don't have to justify it to anyone. Other than that, education presented calmly with facts to back it up and some understanding of other people's lack of knowledge is always good.

[darkangel]

Yeah Jo, I agree I could have acted more maturely. I'm honestly glad that I made my point as clear as I wanted to. I could have been a real hot head, and the next time it happens, I don't think it'll bother me as much.